[mcphee]

One of the theories of the bidding process is, the more you bid the more you have. When partner makes a t/o dble the implication is that have support for the unbid suits. A wlecome idea when you have to respond with bupkiss.

The doubling hand now has ways to react to the information he has received. If you double and bid a suit of our own we show a strong hand too good for the simple overcall. If we bid a number of NT we imeeply a hand that was strong than 15-18 which is what the first NT overcall would show. If you cue bid we show a strong hand in support of the responded suit that is TOO good to make a simple raise, the 15-17 range t/o dble.

If the responder now bids a new suit they show additional values that are expected to be of use to the hand which doubled. Unless you have an agreement to play lebensohl in response to this cue bid, bidding NT now offers a stop which you do not have. Bidding 2S tells partner you have something of use in this suit. Repeating your suit at a minimum level should warn partner that perhaps they should reconsider before bidding again. Personally this is the sort of message I would like to convey, not being that hopeful any of my J's will provide the fill ins to partners big hand. The last thing I would consider is making any attempt to play some 4-3 S game when I am taking ruffs in the long trump hand.

Lasatly if my partner were to bid again after 3C, for example 4C, I would bid game in that strain and expect to make it because now I have the extras he must be searching for, or perhaps he failed to hear that I advertised nothing prior to his raise to 4C.

I would not be unhappy if a partner bid 1S in response to the t/o dble. If this was the choice then you must bid 2S after the cue bid.

[Winstonm]

2C the first time.
2N the second time - partner has shown a strong hand of unknown type and the best I can do, being required to bid, is show my shape - this is not extra values as with 5-6 and a diamond stop I would have bid 3N - IMO partner has shown his values to be in the 20 or so range, so my bidding at this point should be much like if he opened 2N - I bid the total value of my hand now. 2N would say that this is high enough for me - 3N says we ought to have a play - and 3C says this is enough and I have long clubs. 2H/2S would just show shape. If I really have the 8-9 top end I would bid 3D.

Winston

[Al_U_Card]

If you respond 1M to a first double and then 2 of a minor to a second double I take that as a poor hand with a longer minor than major (typically 4-5)and a bust because with up to 4-7 hcp I would just repeat the major. Would that idea not apply here? S then C showing a weak hand with longer C? The q-bid just makes his hand stronger, as far as I can see.

[mike777]

Wow, what a post thread. This thread really surprised me. I must say if we all cannot agree on this one with our expert pick up partner we are going to have problems on most of the rest of our "standard" bidding. .

[HeartA]

Jlall, on Jan 17 2006, 04:25 PM, said:

1) 2C. I bid my longest suit
2) 3C. My view is 3C is regressive and everything else shows a little something. I don't have a little something so I can't bid 2S.

agree with Justin.

[jdeegan]

Winstonm, on Jan 18 2006, 11:51 AM, said:

2C the first time.
2N the second time - partner has shown a strong hand of unknown type and the best I can do, being required to bid, is show my shape - this is not extra values as with 5-6 and a diamond stop I would have bid 3N - IMO partner has shown his values to be in the 20 or so range, so my bidding at this point should be much like if he opened 2N - I bid the total value of my hand now.  2N would say that this is high enough for me - 3N says we ought to have a play - and 3C says this is enough and I have long clubs.  2H/2S would just show shape.  If I really have the 8-9 top end I would bid 3D.

Winston

Dynamite problem. A 'bread and butter' bidding situation with excellent players replying with answers all over the map. As a notorious result player, I have to agree with Winstonm. Two NT or 3♣ are the best spots, and his auction gives us the best chance to settle there. His analysis is pretty good too.

[Al_U_Card]

mike777, on Jan 18 2006, 03:23 PM, said:

Wow, what a post thread. This thread really surprised me. I must say if we all cannot agree on this one with our expert pick up partner we are going to have problems on most of the rest of our "standard" bidding. .

This seems to be emblematic of most of the threads here. We run the gamut of expertise and even tho the better players and analysts have valid reasons they often fail to agree.

I lack a lot of "modern" info on methods but am re-learning. These threads help a lot.

[joshs]

Well I think 2C then 2S is clearly right, and I do not think it promises any values. Generally, the cue bid shows only 3 card support for the first bid suit, or a total rock crusher (bit over a minor suit response he might have 4 card support and is trying to get to NT), so the first order of business is to identify a playable strain. With a better hand I might decide that Txxx was a stopper, but not with this junk. What I definitely do not want partner to think, is that he is facing 5 clubs...

Note: There is no hand with any playing potential that I would bid a 5 card minor before a 4 card major at this level, so 2C then 2S shows a hand with only 4 clubs, only 3 spades, that can't bid NT or counter cue-bid (I would bid 3D with Qxx Qxx xxx Qxxx.)


Josh

[FrancesHinden]

mike777, on Jan 18 2006, 09:23 PM, said:

Wow, what a post thread. This thread really surprised me. I must say if we all cannot agree on this one with our expert pick up partner we are going to have problems on most of the rest of our "standard" bidding. .

Part of the reason for the disagreement is a consequence of a lack of agreement about the take-out double.

There are three main styles of take-out around:

- shape suitable or very strong - opposite that you bid your longest suit
- emphasis on unbid major(s) - opposite that you bid your better major rather than a 4-card minor
- any hand with high cards that wants to get into the auction - opposite that you're screwed

All the club bidders (including me) belong I would think to the first camp.
The 1S bidders belong to the second and third camps.