[cherdano]

You hold ♠KJTx ♥Kxx ♦KJTxx ♣x, and although this is not clear in your partnership style (your min for balanced hands is 12 or excellent 11, and for unbalanced around rule of 20 with judgement, so it's not clear the nice tens make up for the lack of aces), you decide to open this 1♦. Partner bids 1♠, which you raise to 2♠, and makes a game try with 3♣.
RHO surprises you by doubling for the lead (think I mentioned opponents didn't always make sense in the other thread...). What do you do?

Arend

[Free]

3♥, counter trial.

[pclayton]

What kind of game tries are we playing? Help Suit? Natural?

If its a help suit, I go to 4♠. If its natural, I counter with 3♦, which I think is a little more descriptive than 3♥.

[han]

I agree with Phil, but I think that 3H is more descriptive than 3D. It is not clear whether the singleton club is good or really bad, but partner will know.

[mike777]

I will pass and let partner make another game try after due consideration.

[cherdano]

pclayton, on Jan 15 2006, 07:16 PM, said:

What kind of game tries are we playing? Help Suit? Natural?

If its a help suit, I go to 4♠. If its natural, I counter with 3♦, which I think is a little more descriptive than 3♥.

Long suit trial bids, whatever that is.

[luke warm]

i assumed help suit and bid 4♠

[mghmaine]

Help suit ! You have no help. Help suit asks usually do not like singletons, but rather high cards.

You have a dead min and no help. If you do not bid 3S with this, then what ?

[luke warm]

i disagree with this.. sure, if i had ♣KTxx that would be help... but so is a stiff

[Kalvan14]

4♠. Minimum, but good trumps and a diamond suit which can bring tricks.

Edit: the only alternative (a weaker one, IMO) would be 3♥

[han]

I don't think that it is clear that a stiff will be helpful (although it is almost always better than xxx). Partner may have Axxx or KJxx in clubs, and over 3H he will know whether the stiff club is helpful. If you have the agreement that 3H shows 3-4-5-1 shape then that is of course a problem. I haven't discussed this auction, but I think that I might bid 3NT with that shape.


I think that 4S is much better than 3S, but it would be nice if we could tell partner about our hand. Many people play 2NT as an asking bid, which might have been useful here.

[cherdano]

True, 3♥ might be best.

Nobody commented on the double, but that is what persuaded me to bid 4♠ directly at the table. If RHO has strong values in the suit, partner won't have much wasted. Even RHO has AQxx over partner's KJTx, we know the ruffing finesse is on, so life promises should be good when we don't lose 4 top tricks.

At the table, this was right, as partner had ♠Axxxx ♥QJ ♦x ♣Axxxx, but of course he would have accepted any re-try.

The double was based on ♣KQx, btw, not sure why he was so desperate to get this lead against 3NT (the only likely contract against which he would not be on lead)....

Arend

[mike777]

What is 3c grand slam try?

[Winstonm]

The value of a singleton in a help suit try is determined in large part by the total trumps held - not so valuable in a 4-4 fit. This would point me toward a retrial of 3D as saying I'm unlcear but interested.

Winston

[whereagles]

I'd sign-off in 3♠. I don't like the club wastage, I have a dead min and my hand lacks controls.

[Fluffy]

whereagles, on Jan 18 2006, 10:19 AM, said:

I'd sign-off in 3♠. I don't like the club wastage, I have a dead min and my hand lacks controls.

Agree with Nuno.

[jdeegan]

4♠. An easy problem. I have a near max for my bidding but a terrible hand for slam. So, bid the game straightaway so as to do nothing to encourage slam.