[ciscokid]

IMPs, Red vs White

opp you opp partner
---- -------- ---- --------

P     P     4♥    5♠
P   ??


♠ xx
♥ Jxx
♦  KT9xx
♣ KTx

[jillybean]

you have no cards

[000002]

5♠ leap base on 11tricks,i will raise 6♠ ,and would cue-bid 6X in case of XAce

[Winstonm]

Partner cannot be trying for slam without a heart control, probably a singleton or void. I'm going to bid 5N, attempting to tell my partner that I have what he is looking for in the minor kings. If he can follow with 6H, I'll try 7S.

Winston

[mike777]

Winstonm, on Dec 28 2005, 10:31 AM, said:

Partner cannot be trying for slam without a heart control, probably a singleton or void. I'm going to bid 5N, attempting to tell my partner that I have what he is looking for in the minor kings. If he can follow with 6H, I'll try 7S.

Winston

Why not? What do you bid without a heart control?

[mikeh]

He is not interested in any of the cards I happen to hold. If all he needs is a minor suit K, he should assume I have it and bid 6 himself. I would assume that he needs either a ♥ control or his ♠ suit is very long but missing a key card.

If I held either a ♥ control or a high ♠ I would bid slam. With ♥A I would bid 6♥. With ♥A and a high ♠, I would bid 7.

Yes, I know that the hands I am assuming are unusual, but then so is this sequence. Unusual bids show unusual hands.

[Winstonm]

mike777, on Dec 28 2005, 10:35 AM, said:

Winstonm, on Dec 28 2005, 10:31 AM, said:

Partner cannot be trying for slam without a heart control, probably a singleton or void.  I'm going to bid 5N, attempting to tell my partner that I have what he is looking for in the minor kings.  If he can follow with 6H, I'll try 7S.

Winston

Why not? What do you bid without a heart control?

More than likely 4S. The first step in slam bidding is not to have two quick losers in the enemy's suit. I'm going to need 5S to show a lot of other hands that need help other than simply help in one suit - IMO, it is best not to have to be worrying about enemy's suit as well.

AKQJ9xx, xx, Ax, Ax. Are you really going to try for slam with these cards over 4H? AKQJxxx, xx, AJx, A. Here?

AKQJ9xx, x, AQJx, A
or
AKQJxxx, void, AQJx, Ax.

This is more what I'd expect.

Looking at the two minor kings that partner does not hold, it's hard to imagine a hand can make a slam try without a heart control. Basically, if you use this bid to ask about a heart control you limit the hands you can describe - saying in essence partner I have no losers outside of hearts - can you bid the slam - I think it's a liitle too much to use this bid to say: do you hold a heart control and I hope you have the right king, by the way. Slam bidding should be more precise - jumping to slam on a hope or assumption that partner holds the right cards isn't for me.
Preempts work sometimes - and one of the ways they work is to propel you into a slam you would not have bid otherwise and it doesn't make - and sometimes you stop in game when slam is on because you are out of room to investigate. So when you start jumping around, it should mean something precise - and for the most part if you are going to try for slam, the first requisite would be to hold no more than 1 loser in enemy's suit.

AKQ10xxxx, xx, AQJ. OK. Maybe I'd like to bid 5H ask on something like this - but how often will this come up compared to hands that hold a heart control that need to know outside values?

On a frequency basis, which is more likely - to be trying for slam without a control or with a control and needing help elsewhere?

This type of situation comes up more frequently than one might think - and IMO the best idea is not to have to worry exceedingly over opener's suit. These inviational bids have to have multiple meanings depending on partner's hand.

Take a hand like: AJxxxxx, x, AKQx, A. Here, the same 5S bid should make partner aware that Kxx, xxx, xxx, xxx is golden - how can partner be trying for slam missing the trump king? In his book, Zia had a somewhat similar auction where in 4th seat he had to start his bidding a 4D with a spade suit of Axxxxx and otherwise a powerhouse - slam depended on partner's spade holding. If you use the jump to show a control, you can ask about either trump held or outside help depending on what partner holds.

IMO, a direct jump in these sequences is a try for small slam; cue bid and then bidding the slam is a try for grand. Jumping to slam is precise - don't bid grand unless you have first round control of enemy's suit.

Winston

[whereagles]

Pass. Yes, I know pard is on the verge of making 11 tricks and I have two kings. But from my experience, when someone has a big hand, he tends to be over-optimistic about it.

Unless pard is very solid, I'd play safe and pass.

[Kalvan14]

mikeh, on Dec 28 2005, 10:42 AM, said:

He is not interested in any of the cards I happen to hold. If all he needs is a minor suit K, he should assume I have it and bid 6 himself. I would assume that he needs either a ♥ control or his ♠ suit is very long but missing a key card.

If I held either a ♥ control or a high ♠ I would bid slam. With ♥A I would bid 6♥. With ♥A and a high ♠, I would bid 7.

Yes, I know that the hands I am assuming are unusual, but then so is this sequence. Unusual bids show unusual hands.

Very well said. I strongly suspect that there is no heart stopper.

[Fluffy]

Pass, partner needs aces!

[000002]

WInstonm said:
Looking at the two minor kings that partner does not hold, it's hard to imagine a hand can make a slam try without a heart control.

I agree.