[adibou]

after Estoril:

NEW TOP10: MEN

1. Lorenzo Lauria (Italie) 4222
2. Giorgio Duboin (Italie) 4165
3. Alfredo Versace (Italie) 4129
4. Norberto Bocchi (Italie) 3937
5. Bob Hamman (USA) 3546
6. Jeff Mekstroth (USA) 3522
7. Eric Rodwell (USA) 3291
8. Fulvio Fantoni (Italie) 2910
9. Claudio Nunes (Italie) 2898
10.Frank Nick Nickell (USA) 2416

NEW TOP10: WOMEN

1. Catherine d’Ovidio (France) 3040
2. Sabine Auken (Allemagne) 2996
3. Bep Vriend (Pays Bas) 2631
4. Sylvie Willard ( France) 2493
5. Daniela Von Arnim (Allemagne) 2461
6. Bénédicte Cronier (France) 2418
7. Jill Meyers (USA) 2321
8. Beate Pony Nehmert (Allemagne) 2271
9. Tobi Sokolow (USA) 2185
10.Jet Pasman (Pays Bas) 2176

GREAT !!

source or here

[adibou]

More here



i'm not on list , why?
first time , in futur (in dream sure)

[Gerben42]

Agree with Justin that ACBL nationals should count something NOWADAYS, but maybe not in the past.

Great for BBO that many of these players are playing in BBO!

[Rebound]

Gerben42, on Dec 13 2005, 11:12 AM, said:

Great for BBO that many of these players are playing in BBO!

Ditto

[inquiry]

Jlall, on Dec 13 2005, 10:08 AM, said:

I've always wondered why european championships count in the WBF rankings, but ACBL nationals do not.

Could it be that European championships involve several different Bridge Organizations sending their champs to an international event, while the ACBL's events are for the championship of a single Bridge Organization (the ACBL)?

I know people from many countries play in the ACBL events, and even that ACBL has others besides americans in it. But is is a single organization. So I suspect it is that aspect that is involved, don't you?

[fred]

As I understand it, the American Contract Bridge Leagure (ACBL) is an organization that has the same stature as the European Bridge League (EBL) as far as the World Bridge Federation (WBF) is concerned.

The WBF has divided the world into "zones". There are 7 of these I think. The ACBL is the governing body of the zone that consists of Canada, Mexico, and the USA. Until recently Bermuda was part of this zone as well, but is now part of the Central American and Carribean (CAC) zone. The EBL is the governing body of the zone that consists of all of the European countries plus Turkey (which arguably is also part of Europe), Israel, and Lebanon.

Since the ACBL and EBL are similar bodies as far as the WBF is concerned this suggests that, if the EBL's major championships award WBF masterpoints, then so should the ACBL's. Besides this "political" argument, it is obvious that the ACBL's main events are tough enough to be worthy of recognition by the WBF.

Like most of the rest of you, I have no idea what is going on here - it doesn't make any sense to me that WBF masterpoints are not awarded to people who are successful in ACBL National Events. I suspect that Hamman would still be ranked number 1 if he was given proper credit for the many Vanderbilts, Spingolds, and Reisingers he has won over the years.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

I think I just figured it out:

Only EBL events that qualify teams for the Bermuda Bowl award WBF masterpoints. You can see this by looking at the history of the masterpoints that Lauria (for example) has won.

The players on the teams that the ACBL sends to the Bermuda Bowl automatically earn WBF masterpoints as well (at least Hamman does - doesn't seem like I was given any for qualifying for this year's Bermuda Bowl!).

The recent European Championships in Tenerife did not award WBF points and I suppose the WBF considers this tournament analogous to the ACBL Nationals (reasonably enough).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[Aberlour10]

inquiry, on Dec 14 2005, 04:22 PM, said:

Jlall, on Dec 13 2005, 10:08 AM, said:

 

Could it be that European championships involve several different Bridge Organizations sending their champs to an international event, while the ACBL's events are for the championship of a single Bridge Organization (the ACBL)?

The field of every 3 major ACBL team championships includes the most of non
american world stars (playing for the great american sponsors) .These line up's
are surly not "weaker" as in a major european teams events. From this point of view it's poor policy not to rank succeses in Vanderbilt, Spingold & Reisinger...

Robert

[mike777]

Jlall, on Dec 14 2005, 06:37 PM, said:

fred, on Dec 14 2005, 05:23 PM, said:

I think I just figured it out:

Only EBL events that qualify teams for the Bermuda Bowl award WBF masterpoints. You can see this by looking at the history of the masterpoints that Lauria (for example) has won.

The players on the teams that the ACBL sends to the Bermuda Bowl automatically earn WBF masterpoints as well (at least Hamman does - doesn't seem like I was given any for qualifying for this year's Bermuda Bowl!).

The recent European Championships in Tenerife did not award WBF points and I suppose the WBF considers this tournament analogous to the ACBL Nationals (reasonably enough).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

So europes "team" trials so to speak gives WBF points to the qualifiers, but we are not sure if the sasme applies to the USBF team trials (because you didn't get any points)? Maybe I was mistaken but I thought that winning the USBF trials did NOT award WBF points whereas winning the european trials did. If this is the case it does not make sense to me at all.

Hmmm seems we need more facts. Not a good sign when even Fred is not 100% sure of all the issues and facts involved .

I assume we here in the USA have some members on the WBF who respond to questions?

I know the people at ACBL headquarters have been helpful in the past on confusing issues.

[fred]

Jlall, on Dec 14 2005, 11:37 PM, said:

So europes "team" trials so to speak gives WBF points to the qualifiers, but we are not sure if the sasme applies to the USBF team trials (because you didn't get any points)? Maybe I was mistaken but I thought that winning the USBF trials did NOT award WBF points whereas winning the european trials did. If this is the case it does not make sense to me at all.

The USBF (United States Bridge Federation) is to the ACBL as the FFB (French Bridge Federation), for example, is to the EBL.

WBF points are not awarded to the people who win the French Team Trials, but the team that wins the French Team Trials qualifies to play in the European Championships (a zonal event) where WBF points are awarded.

The ACBL does not really have an event that corresponds to the EBL's European Championships because ACBL's 3 representatives in the Bermuda Bowl always consist of the winners of the Canadian National Teams Chamionships and the 2 teams that come out of the American Team Trials. In other words, ACBL does not have a zonal championship event in which teams from different countries compete against one another for a limited number of Bermuda Bowl berths.

As far as I can tell the WBF deals with this anomoly (which is really a function of the small number of countries in the ACBL versus the large number of countries in the EBL) by giving out WBF points to ACBL's Bermuda Bowl representatives even though they never play in a zonal championship. Have a look at Hamman's history of WBF points and you will see what I mean. You will see, for example, that Hamman won some points for winning the 2004 Team Trials.

My theory does not explain why I have not been giving any WBF points (yet) for winning the 2005 Team Trials. Perhaps my theory is wrong, but more likely (I think) someone has made a mistake (or perhaps the USBF has simply been late in filling out the appropriate forms).

If I actually cared about this, I might point out this mistake and try to get credit for the points I think I deserve

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[awm]

My impression is that Team Canada actually plays Team Mexico for the right to compete in the Bermuda Bowl. Just because Canada has won these matches in recent history isn't quite a reason to assume that Team Canada has an automatic trip to the Bermuda Bowl... and I wonder whether this match (Canada v. Mexico) awards WBF points.

[fred]

awm, on Dec 15 2005, 01:10 AM, said:

My impression is that Team Canada actually plays Team Mexico for the right to compete in the Bermuda Bowl. Just because Canada has won these matches in recent history isn't quite a reason to assume that Team Canada has an automatic trip to the Bermuda Bowl... and I wonder whether this match (Canada v. Mexico) awards WBF points.

You are absolutely right. Can't imagine how I forgot this.

Sorry if any of the fine Mexican people in our membership was offended by this mistake.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[ArcLight]

>My theory does not explain why I have not been giving any WBF points (yet) for winning the 2005 Team Trials. Perhaps my theory is wrong, but more likely (I think) someone has made a mistake (or perhaps the USBF has simply been late in filling out the appropriate forms).


Fred,
I know why!

I seem to remember some post you made a few weeks ago where some people in the EBF/WBF were concerned that BBO was getting too big and powerful. They have their eye on you and are seeking to punish you.
First there was Microsoft,
Then Google,
then BBO ...


(ok,ok, I have no proof of this, but I love conspiracy theories)

[mike777]

Just got off the phone with Rick Beye at ACBL headquarters.

If I understood him correctly one does not get any WBF masterpoints for winning the USA team trials. He also thought you do not get points for winning the European Team trials. He said you can only get them by playing in WBF events and his understanding was that these were not WBF events.

[mike777]

Here is some more information.

http://www.worldbrid...s/mps/rules.asp

http://www.worldbrid.../mps/tables.asp

"Championship Zonals

These are zonal events held at a WBF World Championships, they are not to be confused with Zonal events held in the Zones to qualify teams for a Bermuda Bowl or Venice Cup, these are now to be called 'Qualifying Zonals'.

A zonal winner will not be awarded points if they achieve less than 50% in the final result."


Not sure exactly what the above paragraph means.

It seems "zonal events" pay WBF masterpoints but "qualifying zonals" do not.

[Aberlour10]

Good, that FIFA doesn't follow the logic of the WBF ranking rules,
if they do it, Brazil would ranked 18 and Argentina 35 in world soccer

Robert