[kenrexford]

I am not sure I understand the Cherdano objection to my post.

First, in what system do you use a first cuebid to show third-round control of a suit? Qxxx as the first cuebid? Either 4H flags clubs (in which case RKCB responses make sense) or it makes no sense. This seems to be a partnership problem. Either 4H shows a control (which would be odd as North held Qxxx), asks (in which case the answer seems wrong), or shows four hearts, which seems most unusual.

I would agree that stopping below 4NT is easy, if North does not bid 3NT. However, stopping at 3NT after a 3NT call from North is weak bidding. I understand making that stab. Can 4NT be that risky?

[luis]

luke warm, on Nov 27 2005, 01:00 AM, said:

luis, on Nov 26 2005, 02:59 PM, said:

South 900% what the hell is 4♣ when North says he has his values in spades?
Just terrible.

luis, if you were south would you expect the north hand after he bid 3nt? i'd expect an ace or 2 kings more, probably

11-12 HCP with values in spades
The fact that you have the spades behing the 1♠ bidder and that you don't have a diamond fit strongly suggests that 3NT is probably a good proposition.

[luis]

HeartA, on Nov 27 2005, 12:50 AM, said:

I was South, and surprised to see so many blamed me for the auction.

Call me optimistic, but I hate to miss slam. Since the vulnerability is red to white, overcaller could be light. There are too many combinations that could produce a slam if North had 13-15 hcp. Because I had SJ, North could have KJxx, he might have KTxx (assume two stoppers) or AQxx. As long as North had at least 6 cards in minors (as 3NT suggested, with 4-card heart, I would start with dbl) and useful cards, slam was very possible. And because I have extra of at least a K, 4NT should still be safe.

As the actual layout, the auction should be ("standard"):
1D - (1S) - dbl - (p)
2C - (p) - 2N - (p)
3NT - ppp.

Or if North wants to be aggressive, direct 3NT after 2C is fine, too.

I don't even need 15 hcp from North to make slam: KQxx, xx, Axx, Axxx, or KQxx, xx, Axxx, Axx or AQxx, Qxx, Jxx, Axx, etc ...

I am sure all of you who blame South would miss a lot of slams.

I'm not going to say that 3NT was a wonderful bid, it probably wasn't but I really hate your 4♣ bid (no offense intended you are invited to hate a lot of my bids).
The idea of "missing a slam" I think is a phanton, when pd bids 3NT he usually has concentrated values in spades and a missfit for diamonds, it's true you can still have a slam but I don't think you should look for it. It just depends on the probability of a slam, because in order to find the slam you must move from 3NT which, on the bidding is probably your best game.

Luis

[HeartA]

luis,

First, I don't buy that 3NT was 11-12. Second, I don't believe pd would have too much in spades for two reasons: 1) the overcaller couldn't be nothing in spades, 2) I have SJ.

The next time with the similar hand, I would still bid 4C.

I hated that 3N bid.

[cherdano]

kenrexford, on Nov 27 2005, 03:35 AM, said:

I am not sure I understand the Cherdano objection to my post.

First, in what system do you use a first cuebid to show third-round control of a suit? Qxxx as the first cuebid? Either 4H flags clubs (in which case RKCB responses make sense) or it makes no sense. This seems to be a partnership problem. Either 4H shows a control (which would be odd as North held Qxxx), asks (in which case the answer seems wrong), or shows four hearts, which seems most unusual.

Ah sorry, I thought you were just commenting on the sequence. (You made it sound like it can't be a cuebid because no minor has been agreed yet.) No I wouldn't make a cue-bid with Qxxx.

I suppose it was meant as a cuebid, out of enthusiasm for the AJx support. No I still don't like the bid.

Arend

[beatrix45]

As a latecomer to this thread, I am amazed at the comments (except for Luis' and a few others). North's normal bid, IMO, is a negative double. However, masterminding and overbidding (slightly) with 3NT might well have made sense at the table.

South's bid over 3NT must mean that he thought North's 3NT call showed a strong NT opening bid (15-17 or 16-18 HCP). No one plays it that way, though. Otherwise, any bid other than Pass is dead wrong, imo.

[Al_U_Card]

While South was agressive, that 3NT bid must have been made by a dyed in the wool optimist. (or you play super-solid opening bids and he is allowed to bid on air because of it) That being said, one slam try was ok as long as you can end in 4NT without too much stress.....

[Winstonm]

HeartA, on Nov 26 2005, 12:19 AM, said:

South opened 1♦ the bidding went:

---

South - West - North - East
1♦ - 1♠ - 3NT  - Pass
4♣ - pass - 4♥ - pass
4♠ - pass - 6♣ - all passes.

How about a simple:

1D-1S-X-P
2C-P-2N-P
3N-P-P-P

Seems to me North didn't trust South to be able to bid his or her own hand - a classic case of take-charge-itis.

Winston

[joker_gib]

I like 1♦ and 1♠ (I don't know the hand oh LHO ).

Rest of the auction is

[luke warm]

Jlall, on Nov 29 2005, 06:23 PM, said:

I'd blame north.

3N is a big overbid, cuebidding 4H on Qxxx doesn't make any sense, and 6C...what is that? Does north have anything extra? Or a fit?

Surely if you bid 3N over 1S you'll put on the breaks and bid 4N after 4C, or 5C over 4S in the actual auction.

eggzactly

[Codo]

Both got what they deserved.
There is no need to bid 3 NT now. There is a lot of space to find out about a herat fit and a lot of other things.
There is no need to bid 3 NT 11-12 without any discussion, because the "normal" range is 13-15. You can bid so agressive, there are a lot good things which may happen. But you first should tell your partner.

You win prices in journals for finding slams no other found.
But to win tourneys, you dont need ´to reach for them.

So, when you look at 16 nice HCPS, opps a 13-15 NT with strong values opps. your singelton, you just pass to win.

After 4 Club this "partnership" reached new dimensions in misunderstanding. I do not know, what 4 HEart was (Maybe 4 Club was some Blackwood for Clubs?!)

Anyway nice bidding- said the opps....

[mikestar]

I'm going to go out on a limb and defend South. North should have 13 HCP or a compensating source of tricks (diamond fit) with spades well stopped. South will have a play for slam oppostie ♠KQ ♥A ♦A with nothing else in the North hand--he can afford a slam try.

North should have negative doubled or bid 2NT only (in fact like 1NT better than 3NT). Having overbid to game, he must sign off at 4NT,which South will no doubt pass.

If NS play Roth-Stonish openenrs, then 4♣ was a bit much, but North should still sign off, so the blame is more evenly split.