[mike777]

1H=X=XX=3D
P=P=4H=5D
?

Scoring: MP

---

[pbleighton]

Pass (forcing). I don't like my options, let pd be wrong

Peter

[P_Marlowe]

5H

But it could be wrong.

Marlowe

[luke warm]

i'd pass also... partner's the one with diamonds, let him decide

[mikeh]

Is anyone else worried by what partner has shown so far?

He did not limit raise nor did he reopen with 3♥. For me, 3♥ would be forcing: it promises a good fit and yet he did not limit, so he must be forcing.

So what does 4♥ show? To me it shows extra trumps and no slam interest. While he may have only 4, there is a good chance he has 5, and therefore some risk that we have zero tricks in that suit against 5♦ doubled.

Can he picture our hand if we pass the buck to him? I do not think so: yes, he will picture short ♦, but not a void. He will not picture the 6th ♥ nor the less than stellar defensive values. If we pass, we are defending 5♦ doubled, and I am not comfortable doing that.

So I bid 5♥.

This offends virtually all my guidelines for these decisions: I am bidding ahead of partner in situation where an opponent has made an inconsistent bid: RHO should probably have bid 5♦ last time. So maybe I am getting pushed around and I hate that so much that I am tempted to pass after all. But I won't.

[temp3600]

mikeh, on Nov 21 2005, 07:55 PM, said:

He did not limit raise nor did he reopen with 3♥. For me, 3♥ would be forcing: it promises a good fit and yet he did not limit, so he must be forcing.

So what does 4♥ show? To me it shows extra trumps and no slam interest. While he may have only 4, there is a good chance he has 5, and therefore some risk that we have zero tricks in that suit against 5♦ doubled.

I would take 3H as non forcing, limit raise strenght with 3 hearts. To me, 4H shows a game forcing hand with 3 trumps, nothing exciting in terms of distribution, and of course not much in diamonds. I would not XX with a hand with 4+ trumps and a limit raise or better.

So i pass now and pass partner's expected double.

[han]

Partner should have exactly 3 spades, surely there are other bids available with more than 3 hearts.

Partner will not expect 6 hearts and a void, perhaps I should have bid 3H over 3D directly. That would show a minimal hand with 6+ hearts and likely (since we are not willing to sit a penalty double) a heart void.

[cherdano]

Hannie, on Nov 22 2005, 07:41 AM, said:

Partner will not expect 6 hearts and a void, perhaps I should have bid 3H over 3D directly. That would show a minimal hand with 6+ hearts and likely (since we are not willing to sit a penalty double) a heart void.

I almost agree with that. I wouldn't have used 'perhaps', I think 3♥ is pretty clear and without alternative.

Arend

[Robert]

Hello everyone

I didn't really pass over that jump to 3Ds did I? They heard this auction. They heard my partner XX and they still jumped to 3Ds.

Unless they are 'known' to have a death wish, we are not getting rich defending 3Ds Xed. Are you really sitting for 3Ds Xed never having shown 6Hs 'or' the diamond void?

Pass over 3Ds should not describe anything like this hand. If partner does not hold some heart support, he will bid 3Ss.

I joined the pass asks for a double school and double=forward going 'school' some time ago. I double here playing that method.

Doesn't most writers say that with minimum hands, you show a long suit at low levels to let partner in on the joke? Passing that 3D jump was just not right!

Passing 3Ds and later bidding hearts should show decent(extra?) values.

I did not want to defend 3Ds, however, after showing 0-1 diamonds with my 'forward' going double, I will give partner a chance to play for penalties at the 5D level.

Did our methods really make me pass that 3D bid? Really?

Perhaps we should take up 'mini' Flannery? I have methods to show 4S and 5-6 card heart holdings. This hand is within a 'mini' Flannery range.

Is anyone nervous about the other pair bidding 3Ds and later 5Ds. He might be 'walking the dog' unless he is a really bad player.

Regards,
Robert

[joker_gib]

5♥ with the ♦ void.

Don't know what's going on but I'm not gonna be rich in 5♦ X

Alain

[whereagles]

5♥. If nothing else, I'm playing it

[luke warm]

passing doesn't mean you won't be in 5H

[P_Marlowe]

luke warm, on Nov 22 2005, 06:35 AM, said:

passing doesn't mean you won't be in 5H

But if you pass now, and bid 5H over
partners double, would that not be
stronger?

Marlowe

[Al_U_Card]

clearly, the 3D after the rdbl shows nothing except long D. Pard has a limit raise type hand with 3 trumps but reason to feel that game is there (S AJT behind the t/o doubler perhaps to go with the HA and the CK?) You have lots of playing strength and little defence so since they are sacking, don't pass and pull, bid 5H.

[Fluffy]

I would quickly write a note to my partner to remind him after the board that redouble denies support

[joker_gib]

Fluffy, on Nov 22 2005, 04:01 PM, said:

I would quickly write a note to my partner to remind him after the board that redouble denies support

Same for me but I assume it is not the case here !!

[luke warm]

P_Marlowe, on Nov 22 2005, 07:48 AM, said:

luke warm, on Nov 22 2005, 06:35 AM, said:

passing doesn't mean you won't be in 5H

But if you pass now, and bid 5H over
partners double, would that not be
stronger?

Marlowe

i wouldn't do that, i'd pass his double... my pass was supposedly to get his input, he gave it and that's that... what i meant was, partner can still bid 5H

fluffy said:

I would quickly write a note to my partner to remind him after the board that redouble denies support

i much prefer the word "implies" to "denies"

[whereagles]

Fluffy, on Nov 22 2005, 03:01 PM, said:

I would quickly write a note to my partner to remind him after the board that redouble denies support

That depends on your methods.

Classical methods after double allows to redouble if the fit is no better than 3-cards (especially on 4333 hands). That is sensible because 8 card fit for our side does NOT imply opps will have an 8 card fit as well, plus they will have to find their suit at the 2-level. Besides, the redouble can be done if you penalize only 2 of the remaining suits, hoping pard can collaborate and double the 4th suit.

In light of all this, it is perfectly possible pard half-decent support and no penalty double of diamonds. Which hints at a 5♥ bid.

But then again.. pard never has his bid, soooo.. yeah, maybe double is better. LOL.

[Kalvan14]

I would have never passed (3♦). Opener's hand is worthwhile in attack values, but is likely to be quite a disappointment in defensive values.

I am not surprised by partner holding a fit in hearts. In my book, this shows a limited fit for sure (no more than 3 cards) and better than minimum values for his redouble.

Assuming I passed, I would bid 5♥ now. I have given partner a completely wrong picture of my hand. Trusting him to make the right decision now it would be a bit too much (and as they say 2 mistakes might cancel out )