[Echognome]

Scoring: IMP

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The discussion begins. Our first problem in most natural bidding systems will go:

1♣ - (P) - 1♦ - (P)
1♥ - (P) - 1NT - (2♦)!
? - (P) - ?

East throws a spanner (wrench) into the works and bids 2♦ natural.

Is South's double now takeout, cooperative, or penalty oriented? Is North's double penalty or cooperative?

Do you have any partnership agreements here?

I'll leave it to the participants to discuss their auctions and also what differences to their hands might lead them to another action.

[hrothgar]

Board 1.

Board 1 is a classic example of MOSCITO's core bidding philosophy. Show your majors early, raise quickly, and force the opponents to make decisions at the three level.

Our auction

1♦ - (P) - 2♥ - (3♦)
All pass

Systemically

1D showed 4+ Hearts and ~ 9–14 HCP. If balanced, the hand holds 13-14 HCP.
2H is a value raise, promising precisely three card support in Hearts and ~ 7-11 HCP.

Both North and South's passes over 3D can be called cowardly, however, there is a lot of risk and not much to gain. South "knows" that his partnership has a 7 card Heart fit. The opponents are likely overboard in 3♦, and the 5440 shape suggests defending. However, 3♦X is game... I felt that we had likely won the board based on the auction and saw no reason to risk a disaster by doubling...

+300 would be nice, but my gut says that the double would tell the opps how to play the trump suit...

[MickyB]

This was fairly easy playing transfer walsh -

1♣:1♠
2♣: P

1♣ could be short, 1♠ showed 5+♦, and 2♣ was rather uncomfortable. After that double would have been penalties, but neither of us had anything more to say.

Might be interesting to compare the auctions the participants had with how they'd have coped with 1♣-(P)-1♦-(2♦).

[hrothgar]

I was susprised that the hand analysis suggested a 1♦ advance over a 1♣ opening. I would have bid 1NT...

[Gerben42]

Double would be penalty here (as long as 1♦ could not be 'dont want to bid 1NT'). Since I don't have anything I pass in South, and also in North, having told everything.

Nice to reach 2♥ but no way to know partner"s ♥ are that good.

[MickyB]

hrothgar, on Nov 19 2005, 05:06 PM, said:

I was susprised that the hand analysis suggested a 1♦ advance over a 1♣ opening. I would have bid 1NT...

Good point. It wasn't an option for us though - 1♣ is fairly frequently bid on 2 cards, so 1♣:2♣ is forcing and 1♣:3♣ shows 6 cards, so 1♣:1NT is a non-forcing "raise" of clubs (4+ unless 3343)

[inquiry]

Hannie and I are using a modified 2over1 game force bidding system for these (and future) hands. This set of 12 boards show a couple of our unique bidding agreements we have. In retrospect, the system did fine, but you will see our execute of it left a lot to be desired on a few of these 12 hands.

Board one

Hannie
A87
542
QT653
Q2

Inquiry
QT63
AKQT
---
JT864

1C-(P)-1D-(P)
1H-(p)-1N-(2D)
All pass

I opened 1♣. Here we did all we could do.

[Cascade]

Kermit and I bid just like the example auction and then we both passed over 2♦.

Quote

Do you have any partnership agreements here?

Yes

Quote

Is South's double now takeout, cooperative, or penalty oriented? Is North's double penalty or cooperative?

Penalties. We have a blanket agreement that if the opponents bid a suit that we have shown or implied (usually by a takeout double) then double is penalties.

So South here had an easy pass and North was happy to defend with five trumps. Perhaps North could double but we open a lot of trash that might not have many defensive tricks.

[mike777]

Echognome, on Nov 19 2005, 11:58 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

The discussion begins. Our first problem in most natural bidding systems will go:

1♣ - (P) - 1♦ - (P)
1♥ - (P) - 1NT - (2♦)!
? - (P) - ?

East throws a spanner (wrench) into the works and bids 2♦ natural.

Is South's double now takeout, cooperative, or penalty oriented? Is North's double penalty or cooperative?

Do you have any partnership agreements here?

I'll leave it to the participants to discuss their auctions and also what differences to their hands might lead them to another action.

Prefer 1nt ~8-11 hcp to 1d but 1d is not terrible.

over actual auction will pass 2d.

[han]

A comment about our auction:

1C-1NT shows about 9-10 points for us, with less I have to bid 1D first when I don't have a major. I could have upgraded this hand if I really wanted to, but as I had 5 diamonds I didn't mind bidding 1D.

[Gerben42]

Gerben's Fantunes auction:

2♣ pass pass 2♦
Dbl pass pass pass

[inquiry]

Matt, any chance you post the contract the various pairs who bid these hands reached? I mean, most of us are explaining where we went wrong or right, and why. So I see no harm is giving the results, and that way, we know who bid these real world, and who are showing double dummy bidding.

[Echognome]

inquiry, on Nov 21 2005, 02:52 PM, said:

Matt, any chance you post the contract the various pairs who bid these hands reached?  I mean, most of us are explaining where we went wrong or right, and why. So I see no harm is giving the results, and that way, we know who bid these real world, and who are showing double dummy bidding.

I can only tell you who bid these with me. I know also that Wayne (cascade) bid them will jillybean. I don't know who else (if anyone) bid them with jilly.

Han/Ben (hannie/inquiry)
Richard/Frederick (hrothgar/free)
Henri/Dominique (ritong/farfie)
Mike/Dan (mickyb/lanor fow)
Arend/Ed (cherdano/ewj)*

*not a regular partnership. they just wanted to see the hands and bid them under real conditions.

I'll also sent the hands by email to:
Justin/Josh (jlall/jdonn)
Frances/Jeffrey (franceshinden/jallerton)
Phil/partner (pclayton/?)
Tysen/partner (tysen2k/?)

There might be another pair or two I am missing. Please remind me if so.

[Fluffy]

I have no clue of what would I bid onthis one, I feel biased byseeing lal cards

[mike777]

Our bidding was:

1c=p=1nt=p
2c=p=p=2d
p=p=p

[awm]

Hey Matt, we also bid the hands with you. While some of Elianna and my earlier auctions might look like double-dummy results (we did quite well on the first six hands), you can see from some of the later ones that they're real auctions. Perhaps fatigue was taking its toll.

Anyways, I too would be interested to see actual contracts reached.

One thing that these hands illustrate, is that many people who tend to give beautiful auctions to perfect contracts often don't produce those auctions in real life. In reality I think most reasonable bidding systems/methods are sufficient to reach the top spot on these boards, assuming perfect judgement from both players. I'd point out my own results on boards 8,9, and 12 as examples of this.. and I think we can see that Elianna and I are not alone here.

[Echognome]

Yes indeed. Am really sorry I forgot. I knew there was one pair I was forgetting. Adam and Elianna definitely bid these live and bid them quite well.

[luke warm]

matt, sorry for coming in late here but are we supposed to bid these as we would in whatever system we play? if so, mine is

2C : 2D (3 suited, p/c)
2H : pass or 2S
pass

i don't know what rho would have done over the 2D response