[Flame]

Al_U_Card, on Nov 11 2005, 02:10 PM, said:

Flame, on Nov 11 2005, 06:15 AM, said:

2C - has some sense better then 2nt but still not as good as passing.
Pass is pretty safe , if you are doubled you can run to 2D.

If they have 23-24 hcp, they will double and then you are in 2D or 2M and they will likely double that too.

The 2C bid will, at worst, end up in the same place but the double may be less likely if the hcp are evenly split.

Completely disagree
first you would at best not at worse end up in same position since 2D is way supirior to 2M here. [ 2M play in 7 card fit 2d play in 7 to 10 card fit]
second 2D even with a double seems to be good gamble.

[whereagles]

add mode

The hand is a good commercial for a KERI 2♣

/add mode

[Gerben42]

Quote

Last time I tried 2♣ with something similar I found partner with 3352, and2♦ played kinda nicelly 

But there you had a 3451 or so. Much difference. The French ladies could not use Stayman here for some obscure reason. (stubbornness to play old system?)

[whereagles]

The "obscure reason" is that the french have a 2NT reply to Stayman that shows both majors:

1NT 2♣
2NT = 44 majors.

if you bid 2♣ on that weakish 3352 hand, there is a fair risk that pard bids 2NT.

[the hog]

Pass and this is clearcut. The masterminders will bid 2C and get a poor result more often than not.

[the hog]

whereagles, on Nov 12 2005, 08:40 PM, said:

add mode

The hand is a good commercial for a KERI 2♣

/add mode

Agreed

[MickyB]

kgr, on Nov 12 2005, 08:51 AM, said:

- I should have asked what the 1NT bidder does bid with 2 4-cards M. If that is 2NT then ok, if 2H then it smells a lot like preparing for weak stayman and an alert would have been appropriate.

Is "weak Stayman" really alertable where you are?

[Flame]

MickyB, on Nov 12 2005, 09:08 AM, said:

kgr, on Nov 12 2005, 08:51 AM, said:

- I should have asked what the 1NT bidder does bid with 2 4-cards M. If that is 2NT then ok, if 2H then it smells a lot like preparing for weak stayman and an alert would have been appropriate.

Is "weak Stayman" really alertable where you are?

It is where i live , every 2C that doesnt promiss 4 card major and invite hand need to be alerted and i doubt its shouldnt be alerted where you live but this is just guessing.

[david_c]

MickyB, on Nov 12 2005, 03:08 PM, said:

Is "weak Stayman" really alertable where you are?

Well, it doesn't show clubs, does it?

Seriously, it wouldn't be too surprising if it was alertable. Similarly, if there are people in England who play Stayman the French way, that will be alertable here even after the new regulations come in.

[Flame]

david_c, on Nov 12 2005, 09:42 AM, said:

MickyB, on Nov 12 2005, 03:08 PM, said:

Is "weak Stayman" really alertable where you are?

Well, it doesn't show clubs, does it?

Seriously, it wouldn't be too surprising if it was alertable. Similarly, if there are people in England who play Stayman the French way, that will be alertable here even after the new regulations come in.

AS i see it there is only 1 definition which isnt alert all other must be alerted, this mean if better minor isnt alerted then 4 card 1♦ must be alerted, and if normal stayman inst alerted then all other 2C must be alerted

[Kalvan14]

In Australia, you have to alert 2♣ [after all it does not show 4 cards in clubs].
I know it is funny, but...
OTOH, X and XX are not alertable....

[42]

Here is another problem:
opening is 1NT (15-17) and you hold

Scoring: MP

---

Stayman or transfer?

+ Stayman:
-> possible ♠-fit. If p bids 2♦ and you bid fit-fishing weak 2♥, p probably passes because the ♥s are better or he has 2♠s and 3♥s
- Stayman:
-> if p bids 2♦ and you bid fit-fishing weak 2♥, he might bid 2♠ and you play in a 34 fit although you have a 53 fit in ♥
-> when your side has no ♠-fit you are forced to ruff on the longer side and lose control; or opps play ♠ whenever they can and in the end you play "NT"

+ transfer:
-> partner might have 3+♥s. Even if not, the 25-fit is better than a 34♠-fit in this case
- transfer:
-> you might miss a 44♠-fit

I think that transfer is better.
Caren

[MickyB]

Caren, pard should pass after 1N:2C, 2D:2H with equal length in the majors. It is debatable whether he should correct with 3S2H.

The advantage to just transferring is that it gives them less info about the hand - this should make the defence slightly harder and they might balance into spades.

[42]

MickyB, on Nov 14 2005, 05:12 PM, said:

Caren, pard should pass after 1N:2C, 2D:2H with equal length in the majors. It is debatable whether he should correct with 3S2H.

I think that p "corrects" to ♠ with equal length because the stronger hand declares, the "known" hand is dummy. I would

[pclayton]

I don't know if garbage stayman or invitational at the 2 level are standard. I much prefer garbage stayman for the original hand or Caren's hand.

My experience is very positive for getting out of 1N on a very weak semibalanced hand, even if we end up in a 4-3. Quite frequently, our doubleton will be the opponents source of tricks vs 1N, and it netralizes their long suit in our suit contract.

[MickyB]

Yup, I decided that after posting! In practice I'd always have corrected in case partner was 4-4.

[Kalvan14]

I was under the impression tha garbage Stayman requires a pass in any case by the 2♣ bidder.
If you rebid 2♥ over 2♦, it shows an invitational Smolen (5♥/4♠).
I may be wrong, but 2 bids on a garbage stayman look at least one too many

[Fluffy]

42, on Nov 14 2005, 03:59 PM, said:

Here is another problem:
opening is 1NT (15-17) and you hold

Scoring: MP

---

Stayman or transfer?

+ Stayman:
-> possible ♠-fit. If p bids 2♦ and you bid fit-fishing weak 2♥, p probably passes because the ♥s are better or he has 2♠s and 3♥s
- Stayman:
-> if p bids 2♦ and you bid fit-fishing weak 2♥, he might bid 2♠ and you play in a 34 fit although you have a 53 fit in ♥
-> when your side has no ♠-fit you are forced to ruff on the longer side and lose control; or opps play ♠ whenever they can and in the end you play "NT"

+ transfer:
-> partner might have 3+♥s. Even if not, the 25-fit is better than a 34♠-fit in this case
- transfer:
-> you might miss a 44♠-fit

I think that transfer is better.
Caren

I would add that 2♦ adds the risk of partner bidding 3. nevermind, I still think 2♦ is correct.

[Flame]

Kalvan14, on Nov 14 2005, 07:47 PM, said:

I was under the impression tha garbage Stayman requires a pass in any case by the 2♣ bidder.
If you rebid 2♥ over 2♦, it shows an invitational Smolen (5♥/4♠).
I may be wrong, but 2 bids on a garbage stayman look at least one too many

No it show weak smolen not invite.