[kgr]

Scoring: MP

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MP's:
Your partner opens 1NT (15-17) and opps pass.
You have following options:
- Pass
- 2♣: Stayman - can be weak - Partner will bid 2♦,2♥ or 2♠. He will never bid higher. With 2 4-Cards M he will bid 2♥.
- 2NT: Transfer to ♦. Partner will bid 3♣ with maximum and ♦ fit and he will pass your 3♦ after that. Partner bids 3♦ otherwise.

[kgr]

BTW: normall you partner does not bid 1NT with a 5 card M.

[Gerben42]

I pass, no reason why a 4-3 fit would play better. Besides, the field will probably pass also. Maybe it'll go double pass pass now that'd be nice.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, how certain are you, that a contract
on the 2 level plays 2 tricks better than
1 NT, and 3D has to play 3 tricks better.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Chamaco]

P_Marlowe, on Nov 11 2005, 10:31 AM, said:

Pass, how certain are you, that a contract
on the 2 level plays 2 tricks better than
1 NT

It's hard to be sure,
but there are reasonable expectations that 1 club can be ruffed and that with the entry in dummy at least one finesse can be taken.

I am a believer that yarboroughs tend to play better in a 43 moysian fit rather than in NT, when very often declarer is constantly endplayed.

[Flame]

Pass
2nt - very bad idea dont even think about it.
2C - has some sense better then 2nt but still not as good as passing.
Pass is pretty safe , if you are doubled you can run to 2D.

[42]

The argument for bidding with a weak hand is that the small trumps make tricks and enable taking finesses. Weak hands are most of the time useless until opener has the ideal cards and a the layout is perfect. But let him have AKQ to your Jxxxx: the suit is high but blocked in NT.
In this hand it depends on my mood. I don't like to play with this balanced hand on the 3-level. Should I play puppet-stayman also after 1NT I would bid on because I can play 2♦. I would give it a thought to bid stayman and pass any rebid because of the 2 small ♣s. But today I pass.
Caren

[SoTired]

This is not a good hand for 2C. It works great when opener bids 2D, but the 4-3 fit with your weak holding may not provide any extra tricks while adding a level to the contract.

Just pass and take your chances before they start doubling

[david_c]

I've experimented with bidding 2♣ on this sort of hand, and it has always worked out very poorly. So pass.

[Aside: Playing Keri you can take out into 2♦ on this hand. I've heard some people complain that not being able to use "garbage Stayman" is a problem with Keri, but in my experience the ability to take out into diamonds on hands like this is much more useful.]

[mike777]

Jlall, on Nov 11 2005, 09:56 AM, said:

2C, there is a reasonable chance we will end in 2D which will almost surely be better than 1N. I also believe in Chamaco's theory, with a yarborough and a ruffing value opposite a 1N opener the 4-3 fit very often plays better than 1N unless partner has some very good trick source. Furthermore, this is probably the opponents hand. We are playing matchpoints and white/whtie is the best vulnerability. If we shut out a balance from LHO we may end up in something -2 while they are cold for 110 or more (hopefully).

thanks

[Al_U_Card]

Flame, on Nov 11 2005, 06:15 AM, said:

2C - has some sense better then 2nt but still not as good as passing.
Pass is pretty safe , if you are doubled you can run to 2D.

If they have 23-24 hcp, they will double and then you are in 2D or 2M and they will likely double that too.

The 2C bid will, at worst, end up in the same place but the double may be less likely if the hcp are evenly split.

[pigpenz]

I would always bid 2♣ stayman and pass everything after that. Most of my partners would understand that and i would expect them to make the same call also or they know i would at least accept their deciscion for making it.

My experience is to bid before the doubles start flying, I remember once watching Mike Passel on this type of hand just transfer to his four card major suit, knowing that his partner would have no play,....no double no trouble as they say

[Winstonm]

I bid 2C and take my best shot at escape. This allows a 5/2, 5/3, 54 diamond fit, a possible 5/3 major if 1N can include a 5-card major, and at worst a 4/3 major fit, all of which should play better than 1N.

Downside is that often if I pass 1N, especially at MP's, I'm rescued by a balance.

As an aside, a cute little idea we use here is that after:

1N-P-P-X
P-P-?

Redouble forces 2C, 2C transfers to diamonds, and 2D look is looking for a major suit with a weak 4/4.

Winston

[keylime]

2C, clearcut. I'm not going to hang pard, and I'm going to bid to get LHO's itchy fingers off the balancing double card.

Moysians are fun. A true test of skill.

[luke warm]

Winstonm, on Nov 11 2005, 02:32 PM, said:

As an aside, a cute little idea we use here is that after:

1N-P-P-X
P-P-?

Redouble forces 2C, 2C transfers to diamonds, and 2D look is looking for a major suit with a weak 4/4.

Winston

after 1nt (p) p (x), it's opener's bid.. in your system do you have anything for him to bid? i play opener does the same with a balancing double as responder does with a direct double, unless opener's rho dealt and passed.. so

pass forces xx for 2 suited w/out hearts
xx forces 2c for one suited (in opener's case, a 5 card suit)
bid is brozel

the reason for that is left over from my mini nt days when responder would always bid a 5 card major if he held one

[Kalvan14]

Forget 2N (which is crazy). My preference is for pass (there is a very simple reason: I am not sure that a Moysian fit would play better than 1N - give pard AKJ in clubs - but I am sure that 2♥ or 2♠X would be a disaster). If I pass, maybe oppos will say something, if not I take my chances. Mind, 2C is not a foolish bid: I might consider this action, occasionally

[Fluffy]

david_c, on Nov 11 2005, 01:37 PM, said:

I've experimented with bidding 2♣ on this sort of hand, and it has always worked out very poorly. So pass.

Last time I tried 2♣ with something similar I found partner with 3352, and2♦ played kinda nicelly

[Winstonm]

luke warm, on Nov 11 2005, 05:35 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Nov 11 2005, 02:32 PM, said:

As an aside, a cute little idea we use here is that after:

1N-P-P-X
P-P-?

Redouble forces 2C, 2C transfers to diamonds, and 2D look is looking for a major suit with a weak 4/4.

Winston

after 1nt (p) p (x), it's opener's bid.. in your system do you have anything for him to bid? i play opener does the same with a balancing double as responder does with a direct double, unless opener's rho dealt and passed.. so

pass forces xx for 2 suited w/out hearts
xx forces 2c for one suited (in opener's case, a 5 card suit)
bid is brozel

the reason for that is left over from my mini nt days when responder would always bid a 5 card major if he held one

No, nothing for opener. Our belief is opener has described his hand within narrow limits so it is up to reponder to run. If reponder redoubles and opener bids 2C and this too is doubled, a further redouble would show something like 3432...another attempt at escape.

For weak and mini nt, I actually think DONT makes a great escape mechanism: xx is a one suiter, clubs is clubs and another etc.

Winston

[kgr]

Thanks all for the answers. 2NT is clearly out. Pass and 2C get about equal votes.
Two more comments about the actual hand:
1. My partner did bid 2NT - transfer to D. He agreed afterwards that this was a bad bid and pas would have been better. I did of course have a doubleton D and 3D did go -3. The score sheet showed most of the time 1NT -2.
2. I was called as TD at another table. There the bid was 2C, not alerted. The opps were furious because they thought the 2C bidder had some points and the passed. The play at that table was 2H=. (not sure if the defence was optimal). I know that this pair does not have a big list of agreements and I'm convinced that they did not agree anything about weak stayman. So I did let the score stand. Maybe not a perfect decission:
- I should have asked their convention card. When they don't have one with them then I should rule in the assumption that the have an agreement. ...but hey, almost nobody at our club has a convetion card with him.
- I should have asked what the 1NT bidder does bid with 2 4-cards M. If that is 2NT then ok, if 2H then it smells a lot like preparing for weak stayman and an alert would have been appropriate.