[mishovnbg]

Both bul, S(you) open, 2/1 system, IMP
A10xxx
AQ10x
xx
xx

Bidding:

S W N E
p 1CL 2DI p
?

Note 1: Your partnership use R/S style of "variable" pre-empts.
Note 2. Rule of 20 openings.

Your bid ?
Misho

[luis]

1) The rule of 20 stinks, not a change in this case just a comment.

Is this a problem?
Pass, automatic.

[inquiry]

Quote

Both bul, S(you) open, 2/1 system, IMP
A10xxx
AQ10x
xx
xx

Bidding:

S W N E
p 1CL 2DI p
?

Note 1: Your partnership use R/S style of "variable" pre-empts.
Note 2. Rule of 20 openings.

Your bid ?
Misho

Pass is the only bid. Now, a vulnerable partner who preempts will have a fairly good suit/hand, maybe slightly downgraded since you are a passed hand. Still rule of 2 should be in effect. I know this hand, hehehe, so I know what would have worked wonders.

BTW, the way I count rule of 20, this is an opening hand. You have 10 count and 9 cards in the two long suits. Add to that, you have the TENS in both long suits. I add a point for both Tens (or one Ten and 98 in the other). You are also control rich, which is a slight plus. In addition this hand has none of the subtractions from rule 20 (poor quality suits, doubleton or singleton minor honors). Therefore, 10hcp+9cards+1 for two tens in long suits = 20, and good controls. I would have opened 1Spade. (check my frequent post on rule 20 here, or Misho, my system notes on my rule of 20).

Ben

[hrothgar]

The decision whether or not to count this as an opening hand is highly dependant on the system that you employ. I strongly prefer playing system that treat this as an opening bid. I think that it is losing bridge to pass.

With this said and done, I passed with the same hand because I was playing 2/1 and
2/1 IS A SOUND OPENING SYSTEM.

Trying to combine light openings and neigh unlimited openings with a 2/1 game forcing response structure is theoretically unsound. This style

(a) Decrease the frequency of a 2/1 response
( Severely overloads the forcing NT
© Results in an enormous number of unsound 3NT contracts

If you want to open these hands (and I think that its clear that you should) then the rest of your system needs to be designed to complement this style.

[luis]

Quote

© Results in an enormous number of unsound 3NT contracts

Which are my most valuable source of IMPs ;-)

[inquiry]

Quote

If you want to open these hands (and I think that its clear that you should) then the rest of your system needs to be designed to complement this style.

This is an interesting statement. I open this hand 1S, I play 2/1 Game force, and, yes, my 2/1 GF has been what you would probably say is redesigned. This might be a topic for a seperate thread. But the highlights of how I play 2/1 include multi-2D that includes huge balanced hands (23-24) or an acol 2 in a minor, and an opening 2C that include Acol 2 in a major or control rich 3 suited hands. Thus, my one bids are limited by failure to open one of these two bids, perhaps that is why I have found frequent success opening 9 and 10 point hands with 10 and 9 cards in two suits if the suit quality is up to snuff (19 by rule of 20, but with good intermediates in the two suits, and no short suit wasted hcp).

Ben

[hrothgar]

Could you provide me with three data points:
[The first two should be easy, the last difficult]

3 examples of a minimum strength 1S opening bid
3 examples of a maximum strength 1S opening bid

Now for the hard one:

I'm not sure what hand evaluation system that you prefer: [HCP or Kaplan Rubens adjusted count or the sum of HCP + length of your two longest suits or losers or whatever]

For whatever evaluation criteria that you prefer, if possible please provide a probability density function that we can use to judge the frequency of different strength hands.

[inquiry]

Minimum hands are easy. The one shown is a perfect example so I will start with that one.
A10xxx
AQ10x
xx
xx

Now, give me a 5-5 hand like
KJTxx
xx
AJ98x
x

I will open this one too. Here is the count 10 in long suit, + 9hcp, +1 point for ST and C-98.

AKQxxx
J9xx
x
xx

Take away the heart 9 and I open 2S (or equivalent)...

For strong hands, balanced 20 point hands (and some good 19) or more with 5+ spades are opened 2NT or 2D (23-24). One suit hands with 6 good spades with 5+ controls and 8/8.5+ tricks are opened 2C. So the "strongest" hands opened 1S typically are either two suited, or have a poor quality suit that do not qualify for namyats. These would be examples...

KJxxxx
AK
AKxx
x

AQJxx
AKTxx
Kx
x

AKxxxx
xxx
void
AQJxx

Without a lot of thought, something along those lines. Now, can I give you probability density function that can be use to judge the frequency of different strength hands. The short, long and only answer is no. First, because I wouldn't want to spend time figuring that out if I knew how. Second, I don't know how. And third, I am not interested in the subsequent answer anyway, so if someone else figured it out, I wouldn't be very interested in it anyway. But the rules I use for my 2D and 2C bid are 98% identical to what Chris Rydal published on his cavendish webpage years ago. I have found it to be very effective for my bidding style (other poeples results, of course should they adopt any of Chris's methods, may vary from mine).

Ben

[Free]

I also don't agree with the pass, this is an opening hand:
- 10 HCP in your suits (!)
- a rebid (2H)
- only 7 losers
- and if you really want to use rules, use the rule of 19,5 (just right), here a good 19 = 19,5.

If you've passed this hand for ANY reason, there's only one bid left: pass. You had your chance to show your hand, you should have a fit D, and a doubleton. Whatever you bid now will make the situation impossible, because if you bid something, you're normally weaker than 2S or whatever you'd bid as weak opening, and partner will probably pass, even with stiff S...

[mishovnbg]

Thank you friends!
Bidding continue...
Both bul, S(you) open, 2/1 system, IMP
A10xxx
AQ10x
xx
xx

Bidding:

S W N E
p 1CL 2DI p
p 2NT p 3HE
?


Your bid ?
Misho

[Free]

Pass! Don't blow it now. I don't know what the bidding of these opponents means: 1C - (2D) - 2H=forcing or not?
- If its not, he should've doubled or jumped to 3H. Since he didn't, he probably has a penalty-pass. So I'd pass.
- If it is forcing, he might be very weak. Still no reason to Dbl in my opinion...

If they go to 4H I'll double.

[mishovnbg]

Hi Free!
I think my pass over 3HE was timid . It is true they can make contract, but how Ben said, if you only play normal against good players you cant win. They will never bid 4HE for sure, so I must dbl and lead DI. Can be great swing and it was down 3. True, Ben pre-empt after my pass, dut also he is in vul, at IMP tourney. One defensive trick is expected for such bid.
Misho