[luis]

This is a development I've made with a friend specific for the Sandwich position:
The idea is not to lose the fit in the remaning suit when you have a hand suitable to overcall in one suit in the sandwich position.

1x - Pass - 1Y - ?

Now:
New suit: 3+ cards in the suit bid and 5+ in the remaining suit
Jump in a new suit: 4+ cards in the suit bid and 6+ in the remaning suit
1NT: One suited hand in one of the unmentioned suits with 2 or less cards in the other
Cue-x: 5-5 hand in the unbid suits with a bad hand
Cue-y: 5-5 hand in the unbid suits with a good hand
Dbl: Takeoutish, showing values and denying the other bids available


If you want to try it, feedback and comments to improve this are welcome.

Luis

[FrancesHinden]

My immediate reaction is that I don't want to lose the ability to overcall in spades at the 1-level (or in hearts after 1C - P - 1D - ), in exchange for showing 3+ spades and a longer minor.

[Dean]

I also want to be able to play 2Y as natural (my suit is better than yours).

[Robert]

Hello everyone

I also like to play two of RHO suit as 'natural.'

Losing a single suited 1S overcall is a high cost to show 3+ and 5+
cards in the 4th suit. I am also not really happy about losing the ability to show hearts over 1C-1D-? If they end up in NT or any suit, I want make my lead directing major bid.

I also like to play a 'skewed' cue bids of LHO opening shows 6+ in the lowest unbid and 4 cards in the highest unbid.

With 4-4 or 5-4 in the unbid suits, I can double or overcall a 5 card major as needed.

In my methods, a sandwich 1NT shows 5-5 in the unbid suits. Your 5-5 showing bids often are forced a level higher than my version. If my partner has a 4 card fit, he will bid to the three level. If your partner has a 2-3 card fit, he will still often will be bidding at the three level.

Changing to your methods apparently will cost me virually all of my current methods.

I do not understand how showing a 3+ card suit lets us bid better. If we raise on 4 trumps, we might be in a 4-3 fit(which I play very well, however, not always making quite as many tricks as when I play 4-4 fits)

Modern defensive methods 'often' permit partner to jump raise with 4 trumps and fairly weak hands(I play @7-9 dummy points and 4+ trumps) and I also play mixed raises(some defense and some shape)

If you use this method and find partner with a 3 card suit, you are now playing at the 3 level in a 4-3 fit and sometimes with not very many HCPs.

If you like your methods, by all means play them. The cost in changing over is much too high because of the methods that I would lose in exchange.

Regards,
Robert

[joker_gib]

Dean, on Nov 10 2005, 12:29 AM, said:

I also want to be able to play 2Y as natural (my suit is better than yours).

To keep 2Y naturel, I just play 2NT as good 5-5 hand in the unbid suits.

I also think that losing naturel 1M overcalls at the 1-level is a big loss.

Alain

[Free]

This is what I play with f2f partner:

Dbl = 44+ equal length/quality
1NT = 54+ highest suit longer/better
2X = 54+ lowest suit longer/better

2NT = 55+, very weak OR GF

3 bids show the relative length of the suits. With 5-5 and intermediate, you double first, with weak or GF hands you bid 2NT immediatly. You can still bid later on to show extra distribution.

I also don't like to lose natural overcalls, weak jumps, and 2Y as natural.

[Chamaco]

luis, on Nov 9 2005, 07:00 PM, said:

This is a development I've made with a friend specific for the Sandwich position:
The idea is not to lose the fit in the remaning suit when you have a hand suitable to overcall in one suit in the sandwich position.

1x - Pass - 1Y - ?

Now:
New suit: 3+ cards in the suit bid and 5+ in the remaining suit
Jump in a new suit: 4+ cards in the suit bid and 6+ in the remaning suit
1NT: One suited hand in one of the unmentioned suits with 2 or less cards in the other
Cue-x: 5-5 hand in the unbid suits with a bad hand
Cue-y: 5-5 hand in the unbid suits with a good hand
Dbl: Takeoutish, showing values and denying the other bids available


If you want to try it, feedback and comments to improve this are welcome.

Luis

Luis, what is the advantage of the structure you posted vs:

New suit = natural
1NT = Raptor shape (46/64, sac-oriented)
2x = bad 55 in unbid
2NT = good 55 in unbid
2y = natural ("antipsyche")
X = takeout with values

[Free]

I think the advantages are clear: you can show an unbid suit with tolerance for the other unbid suit. However, the cost is huge imo...

[luis]

Those that are worried about not being able to overcall in spades should be aware that the problem is symmetric. For example after 1d - p - 1h if you have 5 clubs and 3 spades if you bid 2c you can lose a spade fit, when you have spades and 3+ clubs bidding 2c automatically shows the spade suit so you are not losing it at all and if you only have spades you bid 1NT and it's either spades or clubs without tolerance for the other suit.

[Flame]

I think the idea is good but the implimantation isnt , i agree with others on this.
I think there could be a change to luis system which will make it better.

[cherdano]

luis, on Nov 9 2005, 09:00 PM, said:

1x - Pass - 1Y - ?

Now:
New suit: 3+ cards in the suit bid and 5+ in the remaining suit
Jump in a new suit: 4+ cards in the suit bid and 6+ in the remaning suit
1NT: One suited hand in one of the unmentioned suits with 2 or less cards in the other
Cue-x: 5-5 hand in the unbid suits with a bad hand
Cue-y: 5-5 hand in the unbid suits with a good hand
Dbl: Takeoutish, showing values and denying the other bids available

I have no opinion on the overall structure but I will note that I hate bids like 1NT in a highly competitive situation. Yes, often partner will be able to guess the suit after LHO has jumped to 3Y, but sometimes he can't and that's exactly the cases where we might have a profitable sacrifice. Also, it seems like asking to be doubled at the two level in case of a misfit, and it doesn't take away any room from the opponents.

Arend

[han]

Luis, you are my favorite commentator for Vugraph matches, and I think that many of your ideas are wonderful. I think that this structure is awful.

It sure is nice to make 2-suited overcalls and immediately show the relative length of the two suits. However, you structure gives up on the most important competitive call, the simple overcall (agree with Arend about the merits of your ambiguous 1NT call). It also gives up on (in order of importance) weak jump overcalls, natural 1NT overcalls and natural overcalls in their suits. This is just too much.

Also, your structure violates the "quick-in, quick-out" principle. I don't see the use of bidding the shortest suit.

Suppose the auction starts 1D-1H. If a 1S overcall shows 3+ spades and 5+ clubs then most likely we want to play in clubs. So after a double or pass, partner will most likely bid 2C and the opponents get another round to make the correct decision. Worse if we overcall 2C. Now we most likely want to be in spades, and we are already one level higher than standard bidders.

Switching the meaning of two suits in constructive auctions is a great idea, since it often increases the number of possible auctions. In competitive auctions you want to get to your spot as quickly as possible, so your idea seems wrong. Let me know if I am missing something.