[Echognome]

If partner can expect this hand in response, I simply say "wtp"?

[Kalvan14]

Well, notwithstanding my aggressivity (or maybe just for that ) I would not bid 1♥. I would like to have a defensive trick to do that.
OTOH, I will be happiest of coming in later on.

Btw, I assume you alert your 1-over-1 bids.

[Flame]

I guess i missed something, i thought 1H show 6+ hcp :-)
The truth is everyone around me use wjs so there is no resson to bid light, we might even jump with 7 hcp, but if it suits your system then gl.

[ochinko]

mike777, on Nov 1 2005, 03:05 AM, said:

ochinko, on Oct 31 2005, 05:59 PM, said:

I am temped to bid 1H too, but there's no way that 1C is going to be passed by LHO, so you could appear later in the bidding. Unless it goes

1C - (P) - P - (1D)
P - (5D)

or

1C - (P) - P - (Dbl)
P - (5D)

which is not very likely.

Petko

Why won't LHO pass out 1club, we have length in the majors and partner has a huge hand. I pass 1c or 1d often in pass out seat. Now we should get good score if opp make 3h and partner cannot overcall 1club. BTW what hand does partner have to bid 5d and cannot bid over one club?

It was exactly my point that the bidding won't be that fast so that we would miss our chance to bid if we start with passing 1C.

Most of the points are obviously divided in the opponent's line. Who wouldn't balance in LHO's position, and risk missing a game after such a timid bidding? I would find it very hard to construct a hand where passing from LHO is possible after his partner didn't find values to overcall.

When I now appear in the bidding it would be much more obvious that
1. I don't fit the clubs.
2. I bid on distribution just competing for the part score, and do not guarantee a defensive trick.

Petko

[HeartA]

luke warm, on Oct 31 2005, 04:06 PM, said:

then i'll explain that my hand looked like a pass to me

agree.

[luke warm]

Hannie, on Oct 31 2005, 05:39 PM, said:

One more comment: I think that Kokish has thought about this a great deal. I doubt that he will change his mind after you give him such a simplistic answer.

i assume you're addressing this to me... how simplistic is 'table feel'? not that this is that, merely that it's a subjective thing... you and ben, and others it seems, feel that bidding here is fine... i personally don't have a problem with that, it's your style and agreement...

but neither do i think *not* bidding with that hand is wrong... style and agreement are things others are allowed to have, also... btw, i disagree that partner can't, or shouldn't, count on responder for a modicum of defense... i don't think most play it that way... but if your agreement is that a response shows 0-whatever with 0-whatever defensive tricks, that's between you and your partner...

[Echognome]

I understand Jimmy's sentiment. The main thing is that partner understands what your bid means. If you can respond with 0 hcp and some shape, then partner is going to have a tough time judging some auctions, e.g. when you end up competing to a high level. If it goes 1♣ - (P) - 1♥ - (3♦); 4♦ - (5♦) - P - (P) - ? Partner may still not know if 5♦ is a sacrifice. You pays your money though. You may also be able to find a thin game because you responded and others left him at the 1-level.

It is similar to opening preempts.

In one of my partnerships, favourable we might open 2♠ on

xxxxx
x
xx
xxxxx

As showing spades and a minor. Sometimes we end up too high or give partner a tough decision, but partner is forewarned that his 16 count just won't cut it. Partner has a difficult decision? Well that's tough. If we had to have a sound preempt so say something like:

KJTxx
x
xx
QJxxx

Partner may still have a difficult decision with his 3433 12 count.

[inquiry]

My preferred system limits most opening hands to around 19 hcp, unless they are balanced. This, in general, allows my partners to pass with more hcp than normal. However, this doesn't mean they have too. In fact, with this hand, I too would have responded 1♥.

Philosophically, you try to win each hand I guess. IF you think bidding occassionally with 0hcp is the best idea (opening or responding), then do it. I happen to agree that 1♥ on htis hand gives you your best chance for a decent score. It makes it harder for your opponents to compete intellegently, it gives you the best chance to find your best fit, and should you have game (remote true), surely it will be in a major (maybe you belong in spades).

Now, if you play 1m-2H as preemptive, this means you can't possibly be this weak... and I understand that. If I played 1m-2H as preemptive I would probably pass with this hand. Not that it proves anything, but after the 1♥ response we got 80% Matchpoint result on this hand, losing out to 3NT making. Also, for what it is worth, while we can make 3♥ and they can make 4♦, they also can make 3NT played from the "right" side (the side with the heart stopper). No chance to get to 3NT if this hand responds 1♥

Ben

[cherdano]

luke warm, on Nov 1 2005, 01:40 PM, said:

Hannie, on Oct 31 2005, 05:39 PM, said:

One more comment: I think that Kokish has thought about this a great deal. I doubt that he will change his mind after you give him such a simplistic answer.

i assume you're addressing this to me... how simplistic is 'table feel'? not that this is that, merely that it's a subjective thing... you and ben, and others it seems, feel that bidding here is fine... i personally don't have a problem with that, it's your style and agreement...
J

Jimmy, this remark was certainly not directed at you.

Arend

[han]

luke warm, on Nov 1 2005, 06:40 AM, said:

Hannie, on Oct 31 2005, 05:39 PM, said:

One more comment: I think that Kokish has thought about this a great deal. I doubt that he will change his mind after you give him such a simplistic answer.

i assume you're addressing this to me... how simplistic is 'table feel'? not that this is that, merely that it's a subjective thing... you and ben, and others it seems, feel that bidding here is fine... i personally don't have a problem with that, it's your style and agreement...

but neither do i think *not* bidding with that hand is wrong... style and agreement are things others are allowed to have, also... btw, i disagree that partner can't, or shouldn't, count on responder for a modicum of defense... i don't think most play it that way... but if your agreement is that a response shows 0-whatever with 0-whatever defensive tricks, that's between you and your partner...

It was not directed to you Jimmy.

[Al_U_Card]

Hmmmmn, they say "with 6-4, bid one more" altho I doubt they were referring to responding at the one level......

This 9 loser block of emmenthal (all holes and no cheese perhaps is better?) has too many ways to win, not to bid 1H much as I will hate explaining why I pulled my pard's double of 5D to 5H....

[Rebound]

I think this hand underscores very well the importance of partnership agreement. Your system accounts for this hand so certainly it makes sense to bid with it. It's no different, I would say, than determining whether to open it with a preempt if you were dealer - answer is, it depends on your partnership agreement.

I like the idea of responding 1♥ with that hand, but I almost certainly would not do it with either of my current partners, and if I did, I would have to fight very hard to not pull the double of 5♦ since I may be expected to contribute a little something to the defense. I have one semi-regular partner in particular who likes to make thin doubles - I try to ensure I have at least something like what I have promised. 1♥ doesn't promise much, but this hand ain't got it for me.

[mr1303]

The latest spot of advice going round it that you should never pull partner's penalty doubles because you've misbid the hand earlier.

E.g.

You hold:

xxxxxx
x
x
xxxxx

And the bidding goes 1H (X) 4H to you. If you bid 4S here (in all honesty, who wouldn't) you must not pull partner's penalty double of 5H because you felt that you said you had something on the previous round.