[P_Marlowe]

Chamaco, on Oct 23 2005, 06:43 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Oct 23 2005, 09:18 AM, said:

Of course, 1S may have been bid with  a 4
card suit, because partner was lacking a
better bid,

Why ?
with most hands with 4 spades, pard would either double or bid 1NT even lacking a stopper.

There MIGHT be some 4-3-(15) with the minor 5 bagger so bad that is not worth bidding at the 2 level, but I rate this to be an exception.

Hi,

I am not good in constructing hands, but
KQ9x xxx Axxx xx is an example.
The hand qualifies nearly for a direct 1S overcall,
I give you the 9, it surely qualifies for a balancing
overcall.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[whereagles]

1NT feels just about right. Passing 1♠ is also possible, but 1NT is much more descriptive and puts partner into the picture, should opps be reluctant to sell out.

[Chamaco]

P_Marlowe, on Oct 23 2005, 06:07 PM, said:

Hi,

I am not good in constructing hands, but
KQ9x xxx Axxx xx is an example.
The hand qualifies nearly for a direct 1S overcall,
I give you the 9, it surely qualifies for a balancing
overcall.

With kind regards
Marlowe

IMO in the balancing seat this hand can double and pass any response by p (yes, even the dreaded 2C response).
I guess it's a matter of style, but I would not balance 1S with this hand (which BTW might consider, IMO, the balancing 1NT).

I like to overcall 1M with a good 4 bagger to show values in *direct seat* before it's too late, but in the balancing seat, usually there are more option available than in the direct seat, so in the balancing seat my 1M bids would guarantee 5+ cards about 90% of the time.

I guess it's a style issue, I'd like to know other players' inclinations about it :-)

[Winstonm]

IMO, balancing seat is the most useful spot for ELC...allows an easier balance on hands like

KQ9x, xxxx, KQxx, x

I don't see anything really wrong with a 4 card suit balance, especially in spades, but only when nothing else is suitable.



Winston

[Fluffy]

I don't play 1♠ as limited (try to double with a 2 suiter on this auction if you have guts ). And I am sure 2♥ would promise support for my partnership, spo what its left is pass, 1NT and a horrible 2/1 with a 4 card suit I am not even gonan think of. 1NT at MP, at IMPs I might better pass.

[han]

Winstonm, on Oct 23 2005, 05:34 PM, said:

IMO, balancing seat is the most useful spot for ELC...allows an easier balance on hands like

KQ9x, xxxx, KQxx, x

I don't see anything really wrong with a 4 card suit balance, especially in spades, but only when nothing else is suitable.



Winston

I agree with your point but I would pass with this hand. I think you should pass too .

[flytoox]

This is a standard 1N bid. Pass would be too conservative.

[Trpltrbl]

1NT, to many J's in my hand, it looks like NT hand so that's what I bid.

GBB

[Al_U_Card]

Hmmmmn, I pass and LHO rebids 2H (glad I didn't bid 1NT.....) or I bid 1NT and LHO bids 2H anyway (he has long spotty H and a couple of outside tricks but not enough to believe he will get 7 before you do....) why am I now bidding 2S (let alone 2H)?

Pard didn't double (so he should be less than a good 14 hcp) so where are we headed Sugar? (going down according to the song....).

If after a mundane 2H by LHO and P-P you want to bid 2S (with Jxx this is questionable but at least if pard has Qx(x) the ruffs will come from the long trump hand) be my guest. I think pass is the only course of action.....

[Al_U_Card]

mike777, on Oct 23 2005, 12:21 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Oct 23 2005, 12:19 PM, said:

The 1S bid here has to include a lot of hands, some of which might produce game, so I think it behooves me to keep the auction alive - the only sensible bid I can imagine is 1N - expresses the values and with a known 5-card suit that is going to be led shouldn't strongly discourage a rebid from partner.

I'd like to give partner the chance to bid again with:

KQxxxx,
x
xx
Axxx.

Again this is a clear and easy 2s bid in balance seat, never 1spade. I always thought this was basic standard but I guess not. .

THink you need an ace more to balance with 2S......sayc

[Al_U_Card]

Winstonm, on Oct 23 2005, 12:26 PM, said:

Although I'm not Canadian, I did have a Danish for breakfast...does that count?

Winston

Your loss...... btw What was his name?

[Al_U_Card]

Chamaco, on Oct 23 2005, 01:29 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Oct 23 2005, 06:07 PM, said:

Hi,

I am not good in constructing hands, but
KQ9x xxx Axxx xx is an example.
The hand qualifies nearly for a direct 1S overcall,
I give you the 9, it surely qualifies for a balancing
overcall.

With kind regards
Marlowe

IMO in the balancing seat this hand can double and pass any response by p (yes, even the dreaded 2C response).
I guess it's a matter of style, but I would not balance 1S with this hand (which BTW might consider, IMO, the balancing 1NT).

I like to overcall 1M with a good 4 bagger to show values in *direct seat* before it's too late, but in the balancing seat, usually there are more option available than in the direct seat, so in the balancing seat my 1M bids would guarantee 5+ cards about 90% of the time.

I guess it's a style issue, I'd like to know other players' inclinations about it :-)

Your pard took no action, so your only hope is that he is sitting on 13-14 hcp with good H cards? Seems like quite a position.....pass with that hand seems to loom but change a H x to a C J and double gets more acceptable.....

[mike777]

Al_U_Card, on Oct 24 2005, 02:33 PM, said:

mike777, on Oct 23 2005, 12:21 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Oct 23 2005, 12:19 PM, said:

The 1S bid here has to include a lot of hands, some of which might produce game, so I think it behooves me to keep the auction alive - the only sensible bid I can imagine is 1N - expresses the values and with a known 5-card suit that is going to be led shouldn't strongly discourage a rebid from partner.

I'd like to give partner the chance to bid again with:

KQxxxx,
x
xx
Axxx.

Again this is a clear and easy 2s bid in balance seat, never 1spade. I always thought this was basic standard but I guess not. .

THink you need an ace more to balance with 2S......sayc

Ok, if you guys think this is not a clear 2s bid that is fine.

Easy 1S opening bid in first seat vul so easy 2s bid in balance seat, next hand.

[han]

I play that a jump to 2S shows an opening hand and a decent 6-card suit.

I still bid 1S with a 15 count and KQxxx of spades, maybe even more.

[mikeh]

Pass.

Where are we going on hands consistent with the auction?

2♠ on a 5-2: 4-2 is possible but you cannot go through life assuming partner has only a 4 card suit, and our A10 suggests, but does not prove, that he will have 5. But we have time to bid 2♠, if we want to, after LHO balances, and if he doesn't balance, I am happy at the 1-level, thank you. For what it is worth, I plan to pass 2♥.

1N? despite a comment that this is a perfect hand (which was probably meant sarcastically), I see no reason why 1N from my side makes sense.

2 of anything else natural is nausea-inducing

2♥ for me shows a really good raise to 2♠. I will not have any better hand since I did not overcall nor did I bid 1N (not a bid from fear, so a decent hand) or 2N (roughly opening hand 1.5 stoppers or so).

I will not miss many good games by my approach: partner could not reopen with 2♠ nor could he double: I would not expect him to have a good 15 for his sequence and given my shape and honour location, we rate to need that kind of hand to make game.

[Kalvan14]

1♠ in the balancing seat does not promise a lot: at a guess, pard is somewhere around 8 HCP. Don't forget that he has available a double - a bit more flexible than in the direct seat - and a jump to show intermediate hands.
Best is probably a pass. Where are you aiming to go with 21-22 HCP in aggregate and a substantial lack of fit?

[Winstonm]

mikeh, on Oct 24 2005, 05:05 PM, said:

Pass.

Where are we going on hands consistent with the auction?

2♠ on a 5-2: 4-2 is possible but you cannot go through life assuming partner has only a 4 card suit, and our A10 suggests, but does not prove, that he will have 5. But we have time to bid 2♠, if we want to, after LHO balances, and if he doesn't balance, I am happy at the 1-level, thank you. For what it is worth, I plan to pass 2♥.

1N? despite a comment that this is a perfect hand (which was probably meant sarcastically), I see no reason why 1N from my side makes sense.

2 of anything else natural is nausea-inducing

2♥ for me shows a really good raise to 2♠. I will not have any better hand since I did not overcall nor did I bid 1N (not a bid from fear, so a decent hand) or 2N (roughly opening hand 1.5 stoppers or so).

I will not miss many good games by my approach: partner could not reopen with 2♠ nor could he double: I would not expect him to have a good 15 for his sequence and given my shape and honour location, we rate to need that kind of hand to make game.

"Ode to Wimpdom" by MikeH.

[Winstonm]

Jlall, on Oct 23 2005, 11:49 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Oct 23 2005, 12:19 PM, said:

I'd like to give partner the chance to bid again with:

KQxxxx,
x
xx
Axxx.

That's nice, a completely pure double fit. Are the opps really passing out 1S when they are often cold for 4H? Get real I don't know about you but my opps with pure double fits and half the deck and a 9 card major suit fit never pass out 1S.

I hate it when you are always right....

But I lied...partner holds:

KJ9xxx
Qx
Q
Axxx

My opps sell out when holding:

Qxx
AKxxx
Axx
xx

and

xx
xxx
Kxxxx
xxx

Depends mostly on the strength of the 1S balance. If partner can't hold this much, then pass is right...if your top end can be 12-13 without a double, then it's not so clear, eh? I and can guarantee my partner would not evaluate this hand as worth a jump to 2S so I have to bid based on his possibly holding this much...

Winston