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Imagination is a dangerous thing.
#1
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Posted 2005-October-20, 15:09
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#2
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Posted 2005-October-20, 15:16
Even playing OBAR BIDS, I pass. Way too dangerous to do anything else, even at MP.
You could try a creative 2N, but if you stay silent, opener might bid higher by himself and you may even defeat the contract. If opener passes, partner will strain to bid something and as long as it's not 3♥, you are happy.
Tysen
You could try a creative 2N, but if you stay silent, opener might bid higher by himself and you may even defeat the contract. If opener passes, partner will strain to bid something and as long as it's not 3♥, you are happy.
Tysen
A bit of blatant self-pimping - I've got a new poker book that's getting good reviews.
#3
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Posted 2005-October-20, 15:31
Pass
It may be very possible that we make 3 of a minor, but it is also very likely that parther has 4 or 5 hearts and will bent over backwards to bid them.... which will go off by 1 or 2 maybe even doubled.. Parner may choose to balance with a double though with many hands with singleton spade or sometimes maybe with 2-4-4-3.
Also, opener may have a very strong hand, just about to bid 4S.
It may be very possible that we make 3 of a minor, but it is also very likely that parther has 4 or 5 hearts and will bent over backwards to bid them.... which will go off by 1 or 2 maybe even doubled.. Parner may choose to balance with a double though with many hands with singleton spade or sometimes maybe with 2-4-4-3.
Also, opener may have a very strong hand, just about to bid 4S.
[COLOR=blue] aka Dimitar
#4
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Posted 2005-October-20, 15:39
2NT
Too much chance that the opponents will declare 2♠ in their juicy 8 card fit. Yes, the opponents COULD go overboard and bid to a bad game. However, most players have pretty good methods after auctions like 1M - 2M.
In theory, the 2NT bid gives them more bidding space. In practice, its unclear whether they will have detailed agreements differentiating between the two cue bids.
BTW: It would be interesting to see whether there's any reason to consider inverting the 2Nt and 3♣ overcalls. Use 3♣ to show a two suited hand with the minors. use 2NT as a transfer (potentially a puppet) into clubs.
Too much chance that the opponents will declare 2♠ in their juicy 8 card fit. Yes, the opponents COULD go overboard and bid to a bad game. However, most players have pretty good methods after auctions like 1M - 2M.
In theory, the 2NT bid gives them more bidding space. In practice, its unclear whether they will have detailed agreements differentiating between the two cue bids.
BTW: It would be interesting to see whether there's any reason to consider inverting the 2Nt and 3♣ overcalls. Use 3♣ to show a two suited hand with the minors. use 2NT as a transfer (potentially a puppet) into clubs.
Alderaan delenda est
#5
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Posted 2005-October-20, 15:43
Before people start wondering which lunatic voted for 3♣, I will plead guilty -- I gamble that they take a push (or bid game anyway), and we get a top since partner leads a club instead of a red suit as at every other table. AKQ is just seductive..
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#6
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Posted 2005-October-20, 15:48
I pass. It's wrong timing (position) to get in sitting under an unlimited opener. If LHO passes, partner is still there; he is the one with shortish spades. I hope I didn't hesitate before I passed.
Roland
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#7
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Posted 2005-October-20, 15:48
Very imaginative Arend.
My friend Ed also bid 3C with this hand, and his partner raised to 5C on Jxxxx. This went down 2 (undoubled!) but the opponents could make 4S. I wonder if Fred would have bid 3C too, I remember a thread where Fred made a case for a lead directing 2H overcall on AKQx (very different situation though).
My friend Ed also bid 3C with this hand, and his partner raised to 5C on Jxxxx. This went down 2 (undoubled!) but the opponents could make 4S. I wonder if Fred would have bid 3C too, I remember a thread where Fred made a case for a lead directing 2H overcall on AKQx (very different situation though).
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#8 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-20, 16:03
pass... white/white at MP when the opps are in 2S, I love to bid on almost anything. I just don't think this hand really qualifies. If lefty is indeed passing, partner with short spades can also balance. I would like to get my lead director in but it just seems like masterminding and partner may well misjudge over a 4S bid (to take a save). If you promised that partner would never bid, I would probably bid 3C because they won't X with no trump honors. Sadly, this is not always the case.
#9
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Posted 2005-October-20, 17:31
i'd pass, but only because partner still has a bid... otherwise i'd double (don't shoot me)
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
#10
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Posted 2005-October-21, 01:44
Pass. Not the shape and not enough strenght for 2NT in this position
Alain
Alain
Alain
#11
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Posted 2005-October-21, 06:52
THere are occasions when you have a good hand after 1M P 2M to you. I like to be able to distinguish between when you have something, and when you don't.
This isn't a good enough hand. If the bidding procedes 1S P 2S P P partner should reopen with a suitable hand, and if he doesn't have a suitable hand I don't want to be bidding now anyway.
And for what it's worth, should it go
1S P 2S P
P X 3S
I'll still bring out the green card
This isn't a good enough hand. If the bidding procedes 1S P 2S P P partner should reopen with a suitable hand, and if he doesn't have a suitable hand I don't want to be bidding now anyway.
And for what it's worth, should it go
1S P 2S P
P X 3S
I'll still bring out the green card
#12
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Posted 2005-October-21, 08:53
This is matchpoints, I am NV, and most opps would rather bid and and play the hand than defend so this looks like a clear-cut 3C bid to me. Why 3C? It gets partner off to the best lead; I have too much in the suit to worry about being doubled on a trump stack; and it "sounds" stronger than other bids.
Winston
Winston
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
#13
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Posted 2005-October-21, 08:59
Imaginative?
Desperate is more like it. Pard is in the hand - let him balance if its right, and he probably will if they don't bash into a game.
I can see two strange reasons for explaining what happened when the waiter that held my cards while I left the table found a call:
1 - He wanted to get a lead director in.
2 - He wanted to delude declarer on the spade situation and have declarer hook into my Qx after my 2N call.
He's still waiting tables................
Desperate is more like it. Pard is in the hand - let him balance if its right, and he probably will if they don't bash into a game.
I can see two strange reasons for explaining what happened when the waiter that held my cards while I left the table found a call:
1 - He wanted to get a lead director in.
2 - He wanted to delude declarer on the spade situation and have declarer hook into my Qx after my 2N call.
He's still waiting tables................
"Phil" on BBO
#14
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Posted 2005-October-21, 09:23
I have a lot of simphaty for the 3♣ bid.
I don't know what I would do at the table, pass and 3♣ are my options and I think it would be a table-based decision.
I don't know what I would do at the table, pass and 3♣ are my options and I think it would be a table-based decision.
The legend of the black octogon.
#15
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Posted 2005-October-21, 09:38
If I hadn't looked at this thread and a beginner had asked me what I thought of 3C I would have explained that it is an atrocious bid. I still don't like it, though I have some sympathy with the MP lead-directing aspects.
J
J
#16
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Posted 2005-October-21, 09:45
pclayton, on Oct 21 2005, 09:59 AM, said:
Imaginative?
Desperate is more like it. Pard is in the hand - let him balance if its right, and it probably will be, if they don't bash into a game.
I can see two strange reasons for explaining while the waiter that held my cards while I left the table found a call:
1 - He wanted to get a lead director in.
2 - He wanted to delude declarer on the spade situation and have declarer hook into my Qx after my 2N call.
He's still waiting tables................
Desperate is more like it. Pard is in the hand - let him balance if its right, and it probably will be, if they don't bash into a game.
I can see two strange reasons for explaining while the waiter that held my cards while I left the table found a call:
1 - He wanted to get a lead director in.
2 - He wanted to delude declarer on the spade situation and have declarer hook into my Qx after my 2N call.
He's still waiting tables................
Yeah, well, OK, but you're a lousy tipper!
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
#17
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Posted 2005-October-21, 13:04
If my kid's lives hung in the balance and I HAD to get a positive result, I might try 2NT but I would WANT to pass.....
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
#18
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Posted 2005-October-22, 03:16
It's MP, so I'll bid 2NT. Letting them play 2♠ with a fit usually gives them a good score...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#19 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-22, 12:17
Free, on Oct 22 2005, 04:16 AM, said:
Letting them play 2♠ with a fit usually gives them a good score...
Yes, fortunately if we pass we have a partner who can still bid.
#20
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Posted 2005-October-22, 21:33
Free, on Oct 22 2005, 09:16 AM, said:
It's MP, so I'll bid 2NT. Letting them play 2♠ with a fit usually gives them a good score...
But 2S is often the par score (in fact it is the sixth most common par score at none vulnerable), so not letting them play in 2S may give them a better score!
Eric
(1S)-pass-(2S) to you