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White versus White
Partner is a random "World Class" player
You have no agreements
You hold
♠ T9843
♥ K52
♦ 976
♣ A5
The auction starts
1N - (P) - 2♥ - (P)
2♠ - (P) - P - (3♦)
3♠ - (P) - ???
What's your call?
Do you consider it clear-cut?
What to do?
#1
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Posted 2005-October-17, 14:04
Alderaan delenda est
#2
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Posted 2005-October-17, 14:11
Pass.
Partner has something like a 2.5 spade bid. This is often a minimum 1NT opening with four trumps, or perhaps a max with three trumps. With flat shape and no spade honors (and a good chance that spades are breaking badly since this makes LHO's balancing call more appealing) I think pass is the right choice. It's also good to "stay with the field" here since we were about to pass out 2♠ and so it's unlikely many tables will bid four (i.e. I expect a push or small gain by passing and bidding four spades is a much higher-variance action).
However, this is not particularly clear-cut and I can certainly envision hands where 4♠ is excellent.
Partner has something like a 2.5 spade bid. This is often a minimum 1NT opening with four trumps, or perhaps a max with three trumps. With flat shape and no spade honors (and a good chance that spades are breaking badly since this makes LHO's balancing call more appealing) I think pass is the right choice. It's also good to "stay with the field" here since we were about to pass out 2♠ and so it's unlikely many tables will bid four (i.e. I expect a push or small gain by passing and bidding four spades is a much higher-variance action).
However, this is not particularly clear-cut and I can certainly envision hands where 4♠ is excellent.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#3
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Posted 2005-October-17, 14:12
4S
Wierd, surely with a p/u world class partner they would break the transfer and bid something else with superaccept? Even with no agreements one should be able to understand superaccept in some form. Now partner has bid 3s so I guess partner has:
AKQ=Axxx=xx=Kxxx or AKJ=AJxx=xx=Kxxx
Wierd, surely with a p/u world class partner they would break the transfer and bid something else with superaccept? Even with no agreements one should be able to understand superaccept in some form. Now partner has bid 3s so I guess partner has:
AKQ=Axxx=xx=Kxxx or AKJ=AJxx=xx=Kxxx
#4 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-17, 14:49
pass...not clear at all. I hate my shape and partner didn't super accept so I'm going to go quietly.
#5
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Posted 2005-October-17, 14:57
In his "world" does he get to know exactly what your hand looks like based on the auction? Seems that he has taken liberties that require him to have a really nice hand with a doubleton D and likely 4 reasonably good S. Since you have no wastage in D, perhaps a 4S bid can be based on his "vision"?
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
#6
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Posted 2005-October-17, 15:29
Pass, NV and pd didn't make any try over my transfer.
He is just competing with a 4 card suit.
GBB
He is just competing with a 4 card suit.
GBB
If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.
#7
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Posted 2005-October-17, 15:48
Pass
I was willing to play a partscore before the 3♦ bid. While I expect xx in ♦ from partner, it is entirely possible that the first three tricks will be high ♦, another ♦ and a third round through partner. Thus even if he has AKQ or AKQx we may well lose a trump trick to Jxx... or lose a trick to Qx when partner held AKJx.
There is a psychological aspect as well. If I bid game and make it, I will feel good and the opps bad. If I pass and miss game, I will feel okay, and the opponents will be relieved but stressed. If I bid game and it fails, the opps will be on top of the world, I will feel badly, and partner will lose faith in me.
the downside of bidding game and failing outweighs the upside of bidding and making.
I was willing to play a partscore before the 3♦ bid. While I expect xx in ♦ from partner, it is entirely possible that the first three tricks will be high ♦, another ♦ and a third round through partner. Thus even if he has AKQ or AKQx we may well lose a trump trick to Jxx... or lose a trick to Qx when partner held AKJx.
There is a psychological aspect as well. If I bid game and make it, I will feel good and the opps bad. If I pass and miss game, I will feel okay, and the opponents will be relieved but stressed. If I bid game and it fails, the opps will be on top of the world, I will feel badly, and partner will lose faith in me.
the downside of bidding game and failing outweighs the upside of bidding and making.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#8
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Posted 2005-October-17, 16:48
Pass of course
#9
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Posted 2005-October-17, 17:46
Pass.
I'm expecting three decentish spades and a doubleton diamond.
Could be massively wrong, of course.
I'm expecting three decentish spades and a doubleton diamond.
Could be massively wrong, of course.
#10
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Posted 2005-October-17, 17:53
i'd pass, but i really don't like the 3S bid.. superaccepting is one thing, you haven't passed 2S yet... but now? besides, i'm not vulnerable
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
#11
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Posted 2005-October-17, 18:01
obvious pass: he didn't super-accept and i'm still minimum and balanced...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#12
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Posted 2005-October-17, 18:18
Pass
OK, what inference am I missing? I didn't feel my hand was worth a game try and P didn't use some form of super-accept? How's the hand going to play, especially if P can't pitch a diamond from my hand and, instead, needs to ruff in his hand (and get over-ruffed)?
DHL
OK, what inference am I missing? I didn't feel my hand was worth a game try and P didn't use some form of super-accept? How's the hand going to play, especially if P can't pitch a diamond from my hand and, instead, needs to ruff in his hand (and get over-ruffed)?
DHL
"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!"
#13
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Posted 2005-October-17, 18:53
I decided to bid 4♠...
For what its worth, my logic was the following:
1. I considered my hand to be a borderline pass over partner's 2♠ advance. For me, the most significant issue was that my honor were sitting in short suits.
2. Partner made a free bid over LHO's 3♦ overcall knowing that I was unwilling to make a game try. To me, this suggests a godd hand with a high ODR. Partner should have xx in Diamonds and good support in Hearts.
3. My hand has just revalued enormously. My xxx in Diamonds is sitting opposite shortage. My controls are support partner's HCPs. Accordingly, I figured that there was a decent shot at game and went for it.
Partner's hand was:
Sadly, 4♠ was down 1. Partner was a wee bit miffed at my concepts regarding plastic valuation...
For what its worth, my logic was the following:
1. I considered my hand to be a borderline pass over partner's 2♠ advance. For me, the most significant issue was that my honor were sitting in short suits.
2. Partner made a free bid over LHO's 3♦ overcall knowing that I was unwilling to make a game try. To me, this suggests a godd hand with a high ODR. Partner should have xx in Diamonds and good support in Hearts.
3. My hand has just revalued enormously. My xxx in Diamonds is sitting opposite shortage. My controls are support partner's HCPs. Accordingly, I figured that there was a decent shot at game and went for it.
Partner's hand was:
Sadly, 4♠ was down 1. Partner was a wee bit miffed at my concepts regarding plastic valuation...
Alderaan delenda est
#14
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Posted 2005-October-18, 04:08
4♠ is fine. At worst it's on a finesse of the heart jack.
Pard could have saved you the trouble of thinking if he had superaccepted
Pard could have saved you the trouble of thinking if he had superaccepted
#15
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Posted 2005-October-18, 04:49
Pass, clearcut in the situation you described, but even
in my partnership I would pass.
3S is just competitive, he could have bid a super accept,
he did not.
He could have made a game try X, he did not.
... of course you played an individual, and you have
no clue, how good your partner is, ... and the same is
true the other way round.
Marlowe
in my partnership I would pass.
3S is just competitive, he could have bid a super accept,
he did not.
He could have made a game try X, he did not.
... of course you played an individual, and you have
no clue, how good your partner is, ... and the same is
true the other way round.
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#16
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Posted 2005-October-18, 05:04
P_Marlowe, on Oct 18 2005, 12:49 PM, said:
Pass, clearcut in the situation you described, but even
in my partnership I would pass.
3S is just competitive, he could have bid a super accept,
he did not.
He could have made a game try X, he did not.
... of course you played an individual, and you have
no clue, how good your partner is, ... and the same is
true the other way round.
Marlowe
in my partnership I would pass.
3S is just competitive, he could have bid a super accept,
he did not.
He could have made a game try X, he did not.
... of course you played an individual, and you have
no clue, how good your partner is, ... and the same is
true the other way round.
Marlowe
Totally agree !
Alain
Alain
#17
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Posted 2005-October-18, 05:10
Pass, not really clear-cut but I don't use "super acceptance" response on transfer.
#18
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Posted 2005-October-18, 07:59
hrothgar, on Oct 17 2005, 07:53 PM, said:
Partner's hand was:
Sadly, 4♠ was down 1. Partner was a wee bit miffed at my concepts regarding plastic valuation...
Sadly, 4♠ was down 1. Partner was a wee bit miffed at my concepts regarding plastic valuation...
Not sure why he wouldn't super-accept with that max hand AND 4 trumps.......your hand would raise to game after the super-accept so you reached the expected contract. I guess he was good enough to realize that opposite the best hand you could hold he couldn't make game if you invited on a min so ......
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
#19
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Posted 2005-October-18, 08:30
Probably pard devaluated the heart and club queens. And rightly so, in my opinion.
#20
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Posted 2005-October-18, 08:37
Pass with some reluctance. I already have a bad enough reputation as a hangman, and partner did not super accept. For all I know, partner is a LOTT freak with four pieces of trump and no diamond honors.Diamond hooks (if any) are probably on, but spade hooks (if any) are probably off. Put my king over in the trump suit and ........................I dunno. The 3♦ call may have improved partner's hand enough to make ten tricks a fair bet, but unless the trumps are solid (i.e. no losers or missing just the ace or ace king) I am concerned that the diamond good side will have a spade bad side.