[mike777]

Scoring: IMP

2S=p=p=?

---

Your bid and why?

[luke warm]

my options are: pass; 3C; double... since pass wouldn't be a real option for me (which means it's probably the money bid), i'm down to x or 3C... since they're vulnerable, meaning i expect lho to have a fair hand for a preempt, i'll bid 3C... that might relieve partner of a guess if he has 4 decent spades and is tempted to leave a double in

[Winstonm]

Couple of thoughts here. They are vul so they would stretch to find game so I'm not worried about balancing them into it so much. Pard is pretty well marked for at least a decent hand so this is a partscore battle most likely. I'm bidding 3C to compete and it has the advantage of indicating a decent lead as well.

Winston

[han]

Torn between pass and 3C, I'll go with 3C. Partner will play me for a tad more, but that may be ok.

Double is not an option imo.

[Trpltrbl]

3♣, because if I double pd might think I actually have a hand and maybe pass. Now he knows I can be light and makes his bid according to that.

GBB

[luke warm]

Hannie, on Oct 16 2005, 03:39 PM, said:

Double is not an option imo.

heh, and for me pass isn't an option

i'm pretty sure klinger would consider double, going by his books... that's enough for me to at least think about it... but i agree with mike that a double here might be too tempting for partner to leave in

[MickyB]

Clearcut pass for me, but then I believe that direct and protective actions should require the same strength over preempts. I'll lose on this hand and gain on another when direct seat has a similar hand but slightly stronger. If it fits your methods to take a call on this, 3♣ is definitely better than double IMO.

[han]

MickyB, on Oct 16 2005, 03:59 PM, said:

I'll lose on this hand and gain on another when direct seat has a similar hand but slightly stronger.

It is not clear yet that you lose on this hand, but why do you gain if direct seat has a similar but slightly strong hand?

BTW, do you apply this philosophy regardless of vulnerability and form of scoring? I would consider 3C automatic at MP's when none vulnerable, would you still pass?

[Trumpace]

3C for me. If I want to make a bid that is not a pass, it has to be a 3C bid. A double would show a stronger hand than what I hold. If partner is strong enough to bid a new suit in response to 3C, I can always support him. Also by doubling I will probably not get a chance to talk about my clubs.

Since we aren't vul, I won't pass with that hand.

[han]

You are vulnerable.

[P_Marlowe]

3C.

Bid where you live.

Marlowe

[Double !]

i would bid 3C (to be honest) but I have this feeling that P has a penalty pass of a double. I suspect that P has 4+spades and not enough (or the wrong shape) for a 2NT overcall: probably a weak NT hand. If so, then with 6 decent clubs, will 3NT be that awful (unless P has a stiff)?

DHL

[Fluffy]

3♣ to me, but might double some day

[MickyB]

Hannie, on Oct 16 2005, 10:10 PM, said:

MickyB, on Oct 16 2005, 03:59 PM, said:

I'll lose on this hand and gain on another when direct seat has a similar hand but slightly stronger.

It is not clear yet that you lose on this hand, but why do you gain if direct seat has a similar but slightly strong hand?

BTW, do you apply this philosophy regardless of vulnerability and form of scoring? I would consider 3C automatic at MP's when none vulnerable, would you still pass?

It is not yet clear that I lose on this hand, but I expect to - I want to be able to compete, but to do is too likely to lead to partner pushing on which is likely to be wrong. If your partner expects this sort of hand for a 3♣ bid, you'll be able to compete with less risk of partner hanging you.

The opposite would apply in direct seat. Then my overcalls promise less than most, so I could compete on hands with which the majority could not.

I do believe in this philosophy at all scorings and vuls, but my minimum strength for acting (in either seat) varies - at love all I am more focused on competing for the part-score, at game all I am more worried about game bidding. I guess this might scrape in as a 3♣ overcall at love all.

[junyi_zhu]

mike777, on Oct 16 2005, 08:12 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

2S=p=p=?

---

Your bid and why?

easy pass to me, this is a aceless hand and short in major, give your partner CAxx, DA, SQxx(x), you still don't make 3nt, so gotta pass it. Give your partner AQxx +DA, you still may go down in 4H(3H) easily. That means give your partner a good 10 or 11 HCP hand, you often can't make a game and he'd bid on, so better to stop here. Also, this hand can often belong to opps if your RHO holds 15 and 1-4-4-4 shape, now you will hear what you don't want to here.

[Al_U_Card]

Pard HAS to have S on this auction (as you are unpassed and RHO would bump if he had something in S). I think the double is flexible at MP but here at Imps I expect to play 3C so what are my chances.....down 2? I favor pass over 3C but it is close

[junyi_zhu]

Jlall, on Oct 17 2005, 07:41 PM, said:

junyi_zhu, on Oct 17 2005, 02:38 PM, said:

mike777, on Oct 16 2005, 08:12 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

2S=p=p=?

---

Your bid and why?

easy pass to me, this is a aceless hand and short in major, give your partner CAxx, DA, SQxx(x), you still don't make 3nt, so gotta pass it. Give your partner AQxx +DA, you still may go down in 4H(3H) easily. That means give your partner a good 10 or 11 HCP hand, you often can't make a game and he'd bid on, so better to stop here. Also, this hand can often belong to opps if your RHO holds 15 and 1-4-4-4 shape, now you will hear what you don't want to here.

Your examples seem to be overlooking that if you give partner those hands, 2S by them will be cold. If you change the SQ to the spade ace, 3N by us will be cold unless they have 5 heart runners, and 2S still makes by them. If partner has any of those hands it is GOOD to bid.

Well, whether or not they can make 2S depends on partner's spades and other intermediate holdings or fit of clubs. Give him SQJxxx Hxx DAxx CAxx, you really don't want to bid 3C because you can't play there.
This is another issue. Sometimes, even if they make 2S, if you bid 3NT and get doubled when partner holds SQxxx Hxx DAxxx CAxx, I am sure you don't feel happy about it. And you may get doubled easily here because opps have defined their hands, especially when partner bids 3nt with Jxxx Hxx DAxxx CAxx, which can be a very good decision if you hold a reasonable hand like: Sx HAQx Dxxx CKQJxxx. The basic principle for me to bid 3C here is that if partner holds two aces and stopper, we may have a reasonable 3nt to play. Also, 3 aces are a lot for a passed partner, the average expectation can't be that high here.