[Free]

I was wondering about something. Me and f2f partner play MOSCITO for a while now, but we miss our wonderfull weak 2♣ opening (weak with 4+♣ and 4+M). The easiest way to free up the 2♣ bid would be to combine the 1♣ (with original symmetric relayscheme) and 2♣ openings. Since the 2♣ opening is rather rare, we can just consider it a strong ♣ opening, but opener has to break relays with the 2♣ hand. If we immediatly bid high, then responder also has ♣s, so no real problem there. Only problem might be with interference...

Would this be playable?

1♣ = 15+ any OR 9-15 with 6+♣ (0-3♦, 0-4M)
1♦ = 9-15, 4+♥, can have longer m
1♥ = 9-15, 4+♠, can have longer m
1♠ = 9-15, 4+♦, can have longer ♣, unbalanced
1NT = 11-14(15) balanced

2♣ and higher are weak openings and preempts.

If someone could simulate the frequency of following 2 openings (only in 1st and 2nd seat, vulnerability doesn't matter), I'd be very pleased, so we would have exact numbers:
- 15+HCP, 9+SlamPoints, any distribution
- 9-15HCP, 6+SlamPoints, 6+♣, 0-3♦, 0-4M, no 1♣ opening worth
(SlamPoints: A=3, K=2, Q=1, singleton K/Q=0, 10+ cards in 2 suits=1)
If you can't simulate with SlamPoints, use HCP range 10-15.

Tnx!

[Flame]

I think it can work, just like other polish club like system do, it might even help if opponents interfere less over your 1C, since they can easily have game now.
Ofcourse this is a serious change to your 1C and even tho it wont change ur system notes too much, it should switch something in yourminds cause now 1C will be not 15+ many times.

[Free]

Flame, on Oct 16 2005, 11:39 AM, said:

I think it can work, just like other polish club like system do, it might even help if opponents interfere less over your 1C, since they can easily have game now.
Ofcourse this is a serious change to your 1C and even tho it wont change ur system notes too much, it should switch something in yourminds cause now 1C will be not 15+ many times.

Well actually, I have the impression we open a lot more with 1♣ than with 2♣. So we probably better still consider it as the strong version - that's what the simulations are for, so we know for sure what the frequency's are...

[Flame]

Free, on Oct 16 2005, 06:36 AM, said:

Flame, on Oct 16 2005, 11:39 AM, said:

I think it can work, just like other polish club like system do, it might even help if opponents interfere less over your 1C, since they can easily have game now.
Ofcourse this is a serious change to your 1C and even tho it wont change ur system notes too much, it should switch something in yourminds cause now 1C will be not 15+ many times.

Well actually, I have the impression we open a lot more with 1♣ than with 2♣. So we probably better still consider it as the strong version - that's what the simulations are for, so we know for sure what the frequency's are...

I agree with you that the 15+ version comes more often then the 2C, but the only time its really matter is when opponents competete and then they usually have unbalance hands and have hcp, both give more chance that opener has the club version.

[hrothgar]

Hi Free:

Here's the "quick" answer to your question:

The frequency of the 1♣ is approximately 15.1%
The frequency of the 2♣ is approximately 1.1%

I appreciate what you're trying to, however, I'd be VERY leery about adding more hand types into the "strong" club opening. I think that you're gonna run into severe problems in both competive and "constructive" auctions.

If you want to reclaim your 2♣ opening, I'd suggest considering one of the following options

1. Look at Newell and Reid's system. They've spent a lot of effort exploring this same optimization. All two suited patterns with 6+ Clubs and a 4 card suit are opening in the "other" suit. They use a 3♣ opening which promises 10-12 HCP and 6+ Clubs. 6322 club hands with 13-14 HCP are opening 1NT. 6331/7321 hands with 13-14 are either upgraded to a strong club, downgraded to a 12 count or treated as balanced. (Martin Reid occasionally lurks on rec.games.bridge I've never conversed with him, but he seems nice enough and has been willing to explain elements of the system to folks).

2. Go back to a more "traditional" MOSCITO structure based arround a 1NT opening showing 4+ Hearts and 4+ Spades. Use 1♦ as a catch all opening denying a 4 card major.

Personally, I think that there is a lot to be said for option 1. They system looks to require a fair amount of judgement, but seems quite playable.

[david_c]

hrothgar, on Oct 16 2005, 02:06 PM, said:

The frequency of the 2♣ is approximately 1.1%

That seems low - you must be very strict about side-suits to get that. I make it nearer 2%.

I once did a lot of research about passing the club single-suiters. Unsurprisingly, that's a loser when it comes up (a little over 1 IMP per board), compared to a natural 1♣ or 6-card 2♣ opening. But I suspect that even this approach would be better than opening them 1♣ in moscito.

[luke warm]

richard's solution sure looks good from here, but i've never played moscito... the hand type you're interested in is either a 6+ single suited one or one with up to 4 cards in another suit

just transfer into the 4 card suit every time you have 9-15 and 6 clubs and use 3C for one suited (up to 3 cards in another suit) club hands... i don't know what you now use 3C for, but maybe it isn't *that* important...

i kind of like this

[Cascade]

hrothgar, on Oct 17 2005, 01:06 AM, said:

(Martin Reid occasionally lurks on rec.games.bridge I've never conversed with him, but he seems nice enough and has been willing to explain elements of the system to folks).

Newell and Reid have been practicing on BBO with other members of the New Zealand Team for the Bermuda Bowl a little irregularly on Tuesday or Wednesday evenings local time (very early morning US time and mid-morning European time).

Unfortunately I cannot recall their log-ins.