[Free]

One of those hands from competition:

Scoring: IMP

---

Bidding went:
1♦ - 1♥ - Dbl - 2♥
3♥ - Pass* - 3♠ - Pass
4♣! - Pass - 5♣ - Pass
???
(*) pass = Lead my suit
(!) 4♣ = control
We play with screens, so you don't know if your partner is on the same track

- Would you have started with 1♦ as well? (Don't start about MisIry, it's too easy to find the right contract with that anyway)
- Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control? Or what alternative would you use?
- What do you think about 5♣?
- What do you bid now?

[mr1303]

Partner might think you have a big minor 2 suiter here, I'm not convinced that you've agreed spades. Therein lies the difficulty.

Anyway, I'm bidding 5S here.

[TheoKole]

5 ♠

Theo

[Chamaco]

Free, on Oct 2 2005, 08:30 AM, said:

One of those hands from competition:

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ AKQTx ♥ Jx ♦ AKT9xx ♣

Bidding went:
1♦ - 1♥ - Dbl - 2♥
3♥ - Pass* - 3♠ - Pass
4♣! - Pass - 5♣ - Pass
???
(*) pass = Lead my suit
(!) 4♣ = control
We play with screens, so you don't know if your partner is on the same track

- Would you have started with 1♦ as well? (Don't start about MisIry, it's too easy to find the right contract with that anyway)
- Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control?  Or what alternative would you use?
- What do you think about 5♣?
- What do you bid now?

The 3♥ bid led to trouble.
I know it's right on values, but it makes difficult for responder tounderstand opener's hand-type (from the actual bidding it would seem opener has a strong minor 2suiter).

I would have bid 3♠, which might be an underbid BUT I think it should be GF , showing a natural reverse that forces to game opposite responder's neg X.

3 spades has the advantage to allow finding a strain early on.

If pard bids 4 spades, then we can use exclusion BW to find if we belong in game/small/grand slam.

[whereagles]

I'm on a guess, and worse, a misunderstanding might be lurking. I'll just bid the fit now: 5♠. As for the rest, I would have opened 2♣ but opening 1♦ is ok too.

I would have bid differently the 3rd round, though:

1♦..(1♥)..dbl..(2♥)
3♥....(p)....3♠...(p)
5♠

5♠ now seems clear: no heart control, asking pard to:
- Pass without heart control
- Bid 6♠ with 2nd round heart control
- Bid 6♥ (or 7♠) with 1st round control

[Fluffy]

Agree with Nuno.

I would open always 1♠.

[Blofeld]

Yes, I open 1♦.

I like whereagle's auction with the jump to 5♠ asking for a ♥ control.

I'm worried that 5♣ is an attempt to play opposite my big minor two-suiter, but if it isn't then I suppose it shows a black two-suiter with slam interest. But I'll just bid 5♠ now.

[kfgauss]

whereagles, on Oct 2 2005, 12:17 PM, said:

I'm on a guess, and worse, a misunderstanding might be lurking. I'll just bid the fit now: 5♠. As for the rest, I would have opened 2♣ but opening 1♦ is ok too.

I would have bid differently the 3rd round, though:

1♦..(1♥)..dbl..(2♥)
3♥....(p)....3♠...(p)
5♠

5♠ now seems clear: no heart control, asking pard to:
- Pass without heart control
- Bid 6♠ with 2nd round heart control
- Bid 6♥ (or 7♠) with 1st round control

This is a nice thought. How is this different from a

1♦ 1♥ X 2♥
5♠

auction?

Andy

[pbleighton]

- Would you have started with 1D as well? (Don't start about MisIry, it's too easy to find the right contract with that anyway)

No, I start with 1S, and if I get a 1NT response, jump to 3D, and rebid 4D over a 3NT rebid.

I don't think 1D is bad, however.

- Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control? Or what alternative would you use?

No, I would have rebid 3S.
This shows a huge hand, and is GF. If pd signs off in 4S, you can respect that.

- What do you think about 5♣?

OK in this auction.

- What do you bid now?

5S. 4C shows the CK and denies a heart control.

Peter

[FrancesHinden]

pbleighton, on Oct 2 2005, 11:24 AM, said:

- Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control? Or what alternative would you use?

No, I would have rebid 3S.
This shows a huge hand, and is GF. If pd signs off in 4S, you can respect that.

Suppose you had opened 1D, your partner had responded 1S and you jumped to 3S. That would be natural, invitational, non-forcing.

Why is 3S in this auction any different?

[cherdano]

FrancesHinden, on Oct 2 2005, 06:51 PM, said:

pbleighton, on Oct 2 2005, 11:24 AM, said:

- Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control? Or what alternative would you use?

No, I would have rebid 3S.
This shows a huge hand, and is GF.  If pd signs off in 4S, you can respect that.

Suppose you had opened 1D, your partner had responded 1S and you jumped to 3S. That would be natural, invitational, non-forcing.

Why is 3S in this auction any different?

I agree. I can't imagine that 2♠ in this position shows extras, it seems mandatory to compete with 4 spades. So certainly 3♠ has to be available as showing extras, invitational.

I think I would settle for the underbid of 4♠ at this point, although a psychic 4♥ splinter does have some appeal.

Arend

[awm]

Agree with Frances that 3♠ here is not forcing.

I'd strongly consider opening this hand with 2♣. This is awkward if the opponents bid over 2♣, but frequently they don't. I'd plan to rebid 3♦ and then bid 4♠ next. Opening 1♠ is also fine.

I like a 5♠ call at the second turn, asking partner to bid slam with a heart control. This immediately clarifies the situation. After the 3♥ call and 4♣ bid, partner may think we have clubs, or that we're issueing a slam try in diamonds. In fact my interpretation of the auction would be:

3♥ = "I have a really good hand, do you have a heart stopper?"
3♠ = "No, I don't have a heart stopper."
4♣ = "Okay, maybe we should play in clubs."
5♣ = "Your club bid is probably game forcing, and I have some good clubs anyway."

I'd bid 5♦ here because it is more likely to end the auction. If partner is actually on the same page with my actions, this will get us to the right spot. If partner thinks something like what I wrote above, 5♦ is more likely to end the auction than 5♠.

[mike777]

Free, on Oct 2 2005, 03:30 AM, said:

One of those hands from competition:

Scoring: IMP

---

Bidding went:
1♦ - 1♥ - Dbl - 2♥
3♥ - Pass* - 3♠ - Pass
4♣! - Pass - 5♣ - Pass
???
(*) pass = Lead my suit
(!) 4♣ = control
We play with screens, so you don't know if your partner is on the same track

- Would you have started with 1♦ as well? (Don't start about MisIry, it's too easy to find the right contract with that anyway)
- Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control? Or what alternative would you use?
- What do you think about 5♣?
- What do you bid now?

1) Agree with 1D
2) 5S not 3H.

[Blofeld]

Yes of course 5♠ at second turn is better. Not quite sure why I missed that one.

[mikeh]

Just when I finished a post in which I disagreed with Justin, here comes one where I agree with (almost) everything he wrote.

Does the sequence so far include the hand type of a big minor two suiter, and if so, have we said anything about ♥?

1♦ 1♥ x 2♥ 4♣ For me that would be forcing, showing a big minor 2-suiter (I play forms of good/bad or bad/good, and have double as big balanced hand), so our slow route should show a different hand. Maybe an even bigger hand? Maybe a ♥ control?

However, I would certainly take the given sequence as a minor 2-suiter. (I think 5♠ was 100% clear).

For those who open 1♠, what are you afraid of? Anytime I see players distort shape on big hands, I suspect fear setting in. Fear that their partner may not understand a natural, descriptive sequence, or fear that they themselves may get lost in the subtleties of the auction. I suspect that my position is well known by now: decribe your hand... distort only when the distortion is the lesser of various evils. There cannot possibly be a sequence in which you are disadvantaged by opening 1♦, compared to 1♠.

And consider partner with 3=3 in your suits or 2=2. You would far rather play slam in the longer fit, since you may be able to pick up a bad split in ♠ when playing ♦, but not vice versa.

Partner will NEVER prefer ♦ to ♠, with such holdings, if you open 1♠

[whereagles]

kfgauss, on Oct 2 2005, 04:15 PM, said:

How is this different from a

1♦ 1♥ X 2♥
5♠

auction?

It shouldn't be different. But I'd be weary to produce such a wierd jump auction at table because pard might be on a different wavelenght

[inquiry]

5!S, bid slam with ♥heart control. Automatic.

[Blofeld]

milkeh said:

There cannot possibly be a sequence in which you are disadvantaged by opening 1♦, compared to 1♠.

What about 1♦ (3♣) Pass (5♣) ?

But ok, that's pretty contrived, even then I'm not absolutely certain that I'd prefer to have opened 1♠ (though I lean towards it ; also what if it's at 6♣ when it gets back to you?), and whenever they preempt in ♥s instead you can be glad you opened 1♦. Opening 1♠ never really occurred to me, but I thought I'd play devil's advocate on this one anyway.