[hrothgar]

Jlall, on Sep 23 2005, 09:59 PM, said:

hrothgar, on Sep 23 2005, 01:57 PM, said:

5♣

Burgess's Rule....

Which is?

7-4 hands should be opened at the game level

[SoTired]

4C --- but 5C have reasonable arguments.
3C is not enough as this is a 5-loser hand at favorable vul. If you are worried about missing 3N, you might never open 4m. If partner has CA and enough to make 3N, probably making 5C, anyway.

I don't consider 4h a flaw. Even if partner has 4h, clubs probably play better.

1C!!! With 8hcp! and ZERO defensive tricks. Come on... You never preempt with that philosophy. This is a 7-card suit with 8hcp. Let's focus people. Worst case scenario - 1C 1S X p 2H and partner starts marching to slam. When partner bids 4N and you show ZERO keycards, partner signs off in 5HX, down many when the club suit does not run because partner can't get to it because dummy got forced a few times early on.

[mike777]

ya good point...better to rebid 2clubs not 2h You sure do not want to put this hand down so p sees your opening bid. As has been said many times 7-4 hands play better in 7-1 fit than your 4-4 fits .

[han]

I think the scenario sketched by so-tired is actually the best possible scenario!!

The only reason to open 1C on this hand is to find a heart fit. As dummy in a heart contract you have nothing to be ashamed of. This hand is much better (in support of hearts) than your average balanced 12-count.

No, problems start when partner has spades, or tries for 3NT, or worst, starts doubling the opponents.

I prefer to play 4C as clubs when I have this hand (and as namyats when I have those hands ). If 4C is not available then I will open 5C, not 3C. We're only favorable once every 4 hands, I'm not going waste this opportunity by being conservative.

[inquiry]

Hannie, on Sep 23 2005, 05:40 PM, said:

I prefer to play 4C as clubs when I have this hand (and as namyats when I have those hands ).

How is that working out for you?

Me, I know which hand type I am going to have before I pick up the cards. I also NEVER like preempting to 4 of a minor out of the blue, as it prevents us from playing 3NT (third seat, four of minor is at least acceptible).

I like to keep 4♣ as aheart opening bid, and use something else as a minor preempt at the four level... 3NT seems to do the job, although it may not be exactly fully legal everywhere to have 3NT be weak preempt EITHER Minor

[cherdano]

Mauro, I don't understand your point about too much playing strength. If you think this has too much playing strength for 3♣ (I agree), open 4♣. If your partner would expect less playing strength from 4♣, then you can open 5♣.
He will certainly expect A LOT less playing strength when you pass in 1st seat!

To say it differently: The 4-card side suit and the good textures increase the ODR. That's a good reason to preempt higher, but never a reason to pass IMHO.

Arend

[Chamaco]

cherdano, on Sep 23 2005, 10:08 PM, said:

Mauro, I don't understand your point about too much playing strength. If you think this has too much playing strength for 3♣ (I agree), open 4♣.

I would indeed open 4C opposite a passed hand pard.

Doing so vs an unpassed hand is quite a risk, IMO, for many reasons, and one of the biggest is that we bypass 3NT when it's our hand.

For these kind of doubts, I like simulating constrained deals.
I actually did for this one, but I won't bug anyone on the forum with that.
If you are interested, I can send :-)

[EricK]

4m pre-empts are some of the hardest to defend against. If eg LHO has a good hand but less than 4 in one of the majors he has immediately got a very difficult guess. Where we have 1-4 in the majors he is even more likely to guess wrong IMO.

Bypassing 3NT may be a problem for us, but in that case, maybe we can make 4NT!

Eric

[pbleighton]

I love 4m openers in the first seat NV. I've done it with a 6 card suit and nothing. It really puts the opps in a pickle.

Peter

[MarceldB]

As a curiosity. So just for your information. For these kind of distributions I use following openings. (No Brown Sticker because an anchor suit is known)

2♠= anchor suit is ♣
7/8/9 card♣ and 4card else with a minimum
4card♣ and a 7/8/9card else with a maximum
5+/6+ ♣/♦ v.v. min/max

2NT= anchor suit is ♦
7/8/9 card ♦ and 4card else with a minimum
4card♦ and a 7/8/9card else with a maximum
5+/6+ ♦/♥ v.v. min/max

3♣ = anchor suit is ♥
7/8/9 card ♥ and 4card else with a minimum
4card♥ and a 7/8/9card else with a maximum
5+/6+ ♥/♠ v.v. min/max

3♦ = anchor suit is ♠
7/8/9 card ♠ and 4card ♥ with a minimum
4card♠ and a 7/8/9card ♣ or ♦ with a maximum
5+/6+ ♣/♠ v.v. min/max

3♥ = anchor suit is ♥
7/8/9 card ♥ and 4card ♠ with a maximum
5+/6+ ♣/♥ v.v. min/max

3♠ = anchor suit is ♠
7/8/9 card ♠ and 4card ♣ or ♦ with a minimum

3NT = anchor suits are ♠ and ♦
5+/6+ ♦/♠ v.v. with a minimum

4♣ = anchor suits are ♠ and ♦
5+/6+ ♦/♠ with a maximum ♦ equal or > ♠

4♦ = anchor suits are ♠ and ♦
5+/6+ ♦/♠ with a maximum ♦ < ♠

I use this scheme in a relay system so for any pointrange available.
Because of the 2-under transfers for the 2♠-3♦ openings the opponent has more bidding space but on the other hand I also hate it to preempt my partner. So a matter of choice.

Same for 6 or 7card 1-suiters: those are treated in a singleton opening system.

Marcel

[HeartA]

not clear about the vulnerability. White to red: 4♣, 3♣ otherwise.

[coyot]

I'm in the pass club... Give partner xxx-AJ10x-xxx-Axx and I've wasted a laydown game.

(in other words, with the hand above, NEVER bid a game against my preempt )

I never preempt with a side major 4card against unpassed partner - and I've never regretted it.

[Rebound]

coyot, on Sep 25 2005, 06:54 AM, said:

I'm in the pass club... Give partner xxx-AJ10x-xxx-Axx and I've wasted a laydown game.

(in other words, with the hand above, NEVER bid a game against my preempt )

I never preempt with a side major 4card against unpassed partner - and I've never regretted it.

And when I have, I have.

I.e. I vote pass.

[pclayton]

coyot, on Sep 25 2005, 02:54 AM, said:

I'm in the pass club... Give partner xxx-AJ10x-xxx-Axx and I've wasted a laydown game.

(in other words, with the hand above, NEVER bid a game against my preempt )

I never preempt with a side major 4card against unpassed partner - and I've never regretted it.

I think the only game you've 'wasted' is defending 4♠ or 5♦ that the opponents might not find over a 4 or 5♣ opening.

Passing to cater to a heart game is a really small target on this hand. The real hand you are worried about is when pard has a softish hand that doesn't want to move over 4♣ AND has spade values: QJTx, AKxxx, Kxx, x.