[han]

KJxxx
xx
Jxx
Qxx

The bidding goes 1D-1S-1NT, all by you. Do you pass or correct to 2S?

[hrothgar]

Happy to pass
If I were to correct, I'd rebid 2♦

[kfgauss]

You need to add how often you raise on 3 cards and how often you bid 1NT on a singleton (i.e. your take on the 1-3-4-5 hand shape discussion).

If you don't raise on 3 often and you don't ever have a stiff, I'll bid 2S. If you do raise on 3 often, but can't have a stiff, it's a bit murky but I think I'll pass. If you can have a stiff, it's an easy pass.

Andy

[inquiry]

I pass without a second thought.

[Al_U_Card]

Jlall, on Sep 15 2005, 01:09 PM, said:

wouldn't consider bidding 2S. 5332, mediocre suit, scattered values etc etc.

Thanks for the reasons. I habitually will bid 2S with these hands, but have used the rationale that if forcing NT auctions are made to get you to the 5-2 major fit then surely it also works the other way around (except for the lead benefit....). Figured that the more motley your crue was, the better off you were in the trump contract.

[pclayton]

Pass in a heartbeat. I don't fret over missing a 5-3 fit, since its rare, and its negligible a 5-2 will play better than 1N. And of course, you may be heading for a 5-1.

[Fluffy]

I bid 2♠ and I don't see any other option

[Fluffy]

Wow, it seem americans don't rebid their suits into the best contract, nice

Now for beginners, just think the difference into our 1.5 trticks to 1NT against the 3.5 tricks in 2♠+ control values against long running suits. It works this way: if partner has 3♠ you belong to 2♠, if he has 2, you won't stablish the ♠ suit in your dreams on a NT contract, and again belong to 2♠.

[the hog]

Pass - absolutely automatic. A 2S bid almost always shows 6, or certainly a concentrated 5 carder. Fluffy, don't forget that your comments are predicated on the fact that you don't raise with 3 card support.

[hrothgar]

Fluffy, on Sep 16 2005, 02:32 AM, said:

Wow, it seem americans don't rebid their suits into the best contract, nice

I don't that the issue is being American, but rather not being Polish or French.... Those are the most prominant countries that absolutely insist on 4 card support to raise partner's major suit response. As for the rest of us, the 1NT rebid strongly suggests that we aren't interested in a Spade contract. We've already explictly denied 3 card Spade support and and any kind of ruffing value.

You could easily be pulling 1NT into a 5-1 fit...

[Fluffy]

5-1 so 1NT is not balanced for you?, this is somehow new concept to me.

[hrothgar]

Fluffy, on Sep 16 2005, 03:24 AM, said:

5-1? So 1NT is not balanced for you?, this is somehow new concept to me.

I think that some 5431 hands are best treated as balanced.

We've had lots of discussions on this board about opening 1NT with a stiff. The same logic applies to NT rebids... Some people prefer to distort shape in order to accurately describe strength. Others prefer to distort strength in order to accurately describe shape...

[Wiste1]

Agree with Fluffy, 2♠
Opener could rebid 2♣ if 1-4-4-4/1-3-5-4 and 2♦ if 1-4-5-3

[Elianna]

Fluffy, on Sep 15 2005, 05:24 PM, said:

5-1 so 1NT is not balanced for you?,  this is somehow new concept to me.

hrothgar said:

We've had lots of discussions on this board about opening 1NT with a stiff

We've also had lots of conversations about rebidding 1NT with a stiff (which I think you, hrothgar, allude to, but didn't explicitly say).

[pigpenz]

i would pass 1nt and then i can consider something if the opps balance at 2♥

[sartaj1]

Al_U_Card, on Sep 15 2005, 02:37 PM, said:

but have used the rationale that if forcing NT auctions are made to get you to the 5-2 major fit then surely it also works the other way around

It is not the objective of a forcing notrump to get to a 5-2 fit

The 5-2 fit in 2M that one plays is actually a concession from the natural order of things. The gain of the F1 NT comes in auctions when responder bids something other than 2 of opener's major.

[Elianna]

sartaj1, on Sep 15 2005, 07:34 PM, said:

Al_U_Card, on Sep 15 2005, 02:37 PM, said:

but have used the rationale that if forcing NT auctions are made to get you to the 5-2 major fit then surely it also works the other way around

It is not the objective of a forcing notrump to get to a 5-2 fit

The 5-2 fit in 2M that one plays is actually a concession from the natural order of things. The gain of the F1 NT comes in auctions when responder bids something other than 2 of opener's major.

Another gain is that it makes 2/1 GF a bit easier to play.

[Free]

Agree that 2♠ will be in a 5-2 fit at least. But I won't bid it...

[Jurek S]

Even beeing Polish and living in France I pass (no other option)