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2 more at match point

#1 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 08:24




ATB for missing the slam.
2H was described as weak 5 card suit + 5 in a minor











Your bid
2NT was described as showing the minors

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#2 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 08:32

1) If there is blame, it is with South. He could splinter raise rather than just bid game. North can then cue bid his heart void, South can show the A, and North will bid slam.

2) 4 is a terrible bid. South must show values for his game bid by cue bidding over 2NT. If the partnership has any special methods (unusual/unusual springs to mind) it should use such methods. This may leave the partnership better placed over the subsequent 5 call.

Having bid 4, South has little clue whether to bid again, double or pass. I would double, in an attempt to cue partner in on the fact that the 4 bid was not preemptive.
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#3 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 08:48

View PostArtK78, on 2012-April-17, 08:32, said:

1) If there is blame, it is with South. He could splinter raise rather than just bid game. North can then cue bid his heart void, South can show the A, and North will bid slam.



Do you really think 2 is a good overcall? it seems very overloaded to me.


Second hand is clear IMO south made this to himself by not cuebidding the round before to involve partner.
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#4 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 09:13

On Board One, I agree with 2. Yes, we are definitely full values for the call and double followed by spades isn't terrible, imo, but I am more comfortable overcalling.

S definitely needs to do more....I am not at all sure that S should splinter......without more info from OP, I'd be concerned that we'd be showing a fit-jump. However, S doesn't need a splinter to show a good hand....he can and, imo, should cue 3. Whether that leads to slam would depend on several subsequent choices, but N will clearly be interested over 3.


On Board 2, a splinter of 4 is a slight overbid, protected by those great trump...partner won't go nuts missing those trump unless he has a good hand... and the positional value of the diamond K.

However, I think it is a bit too rich for me, especially if I have a form of unusual v unusual available to show my values....if my choices were merely 3 or 4, then I'd splinter.

As it is, I don't think partner's pass of 5 was forcing....I don't think it is standard to vary one's fp agreements by vulnerability, tho some pairs do and it would be useful to do it here on this given hand.....so I have endplayed myself in the auction. So I approach the issue on the assumption that the actual S, seeing the problem at this stage, became ill and had to leave the playing area. I bid 5....maybe partner is Axxxx AK10 x xxxx...doubling to collect, on a good day, 300, doesn't appeal.
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 09:49

So, are there a couple other hands, where we can beat up on North, to make things even out?

Agree that South needed to do things differently within whatever methods were available, on both these.
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#6 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 10:49

On 1 I would definitely double 2H first, our hand is just way too good to bid 2S, and if partner passes I don't mind. South bid very timidly, but at the same time, 4S was unlucky to cost, so I think everyone is being too hard on him.

On 2 I would have started with my limit+ raise in spades, at this point I would pass since it seems like I have no defense except possibly one trump trick which I might give away by doubling.
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#7 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 11:32

I'd bid Michaels on the first.
The second seems like a guess between pass and double. Not sure why everyone wants to limit-raise with this hand; we'd bid that way with Qxx of spades so I don't see how it "involves partner". It seems to me that if you want to involve partner you bid 4 to show the offensive raise and then double to show something outside. I'm just not sure that this hand has enough outside.
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#8 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 13:12

Thanks for the comments so far: Re hand 1, I was South. I took the view that my King was worthless so didn't see any reason do any more than bid 4. (We are playing fit jumps but in this instance I think 4 to show a singleton makes more sense) We were playing leaping Michaels. Any suggestions for getting to 6 if North leaps to 4?
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#9 User is offline   Statto 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 14:04

On the 1st hand, North seems to have a fair bit in reserve after partner's raise to 4, both in strength and shape. I would be tempted to make a slam try with a 5 cue.
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#10 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 04:54

View Postmikeh, on 2012-April-17, 09:13, said:

On Board 2, a splinter of 4 is a slight overbid, protected by those great trump...partner won't go nuts missing those trump unless he has a good hand... and the positional value of the diamond K.

However, I think it is a bit too rich for me, especially if I have a form of unusual v unusual available to show my values....if my choices were merely 3 or 4, then I'd splinter.



Yes we were playing that 3 would show a limit plus raise in spades. Perhaps this would have made it easier for both of us to pass out 5. As it was after 5 was passed round to me. I hate to confess this (but maybe it will do me good) I made the gross bid of double which partner converted to 5 which was duly doubled for -500. Yes I know, :( having made the decision to pre-empt to 4, then I should stick with it.

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#11 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 06:46

lets see partner:

-opening 1 is a joke
-removing 5 doubled can be one of 2 thinkgs: a joke, or cheating if you hesitated before doubling.
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#12 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2012-April-19, 03:58

Let me say that over the years I have used the forum to get opinions about bidding and play from those that know more than me so that I can learn and improve my bridge. I am deeply grateful to those that have taken the trouble to give their opinions and I recognise their expertise. However:


View PostFluffy, on 2012-April-18, 06:46, said:

lets see partner:

-opening 1 is a joke
-removing 5 doubled can be one of 2 thinkgs: a joke, or cheating if you hesitated before doubling.


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#13 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-April-19, 06:14

View PostFluffy, on 2012-April-18, 06:46, said:

lets see partner:

-opening 1 is a joke
-removing 5 doubled can be one of 2 thinkgs: a joke, or cheating if you hesitated before doubling.

Opening 1 is routine

I wouldn't double, but I wouldn't remove partner's double either.
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#14 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-19, 06:14

Overcalling 2S on the first hand would be my third choice. This is not full values in my book, it is too much.

On the second hand I agree with Fluffy. I can see how the truth might offend some people, but Fluffy's post is on topic and not at all a personal attack.
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#15 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2012-April-19, 06:35

2? Even I would prefer Michaels or Leaping Michaels instead of 2, and I thought I had higher standards for this than most.
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#16 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2012-April-19, 08:33

View PostCyberyeti, on 2012-April-19, 06:14, said:

Opening 1 is routine

:o

Personally I thought it was a misclick of 2.

Pulling the double is a desperation move by a player that knows he has already punted this board with a bad action. No need to infer anything unethical IMO.
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#17 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2012-April-19, 08:53

hand 1. the blame goes to system agreements in direct seat over 2 Are you not going to bid 2 with the N hand if replace the A with the 2?

hand 2 call 5 South's first call looks right to me even if you hate it. IMO You are going to overload the splinter call if you want S to make an initial call of 4
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#18 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-April-19, 09:08

View PostCyberyeti, on 2012-April-19, 06:14, said:

Opening 1 is routine

I wouldn't double, but I wouldn't remove partner's double either.



View Postbillw55, on 2012-April-19, 08:33, said:

:o

Personally I thought it was a misclick of 2.


I play Acol, and tend to open all unbalanced rule of 19 hands that don't have a good reason not to (like a singleton honour).
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#19 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-April-19, 14:51

View PostStatto, on 2012-April-17, 14:04, said:

On the 1st hand, North seems to have a fair bit in reserve after partner's raise to 4, both in strength and shape. I would be tempted to make a slam try with a 5 cue.

So, what you are saying is that, having overcalled 2 and having partner raise you to game, you are going to take another call?

With all due respect, that is insane. It also might get you before a committee if there was any semblance of a break in tempo by your partner.

Either the hand is too good to overcall 2 (which I do not agree with, although others seem to think so) or you cannot act over partner's raise to 4.
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#20 User is offline   Statto 

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Posted 2012-April-22, 20:55

View PostArtK78, on 2012-April-19, 14:51, said:

So, what you are saying is that, having overcalled 2 and having partner raise you to game, you are going to take another call?

Um, yes.

View PostArtK78, on 2012-April-19, 14:51, said:

With all due respect, that is insane. It also might get you before a committee if there was any semblance of a break in tempo by your partner.

I know that I'm insane, but could you clarify why you think a further move is an insane bid? Sure if partner has hesitated there are logical alternatives, but that's not the case in point.
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