BBO Discussion Forums: Defensive play ONE - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Defensive play ONE First in a potential series of defensive hands

#1 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,472
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2011-August-25, 14:34

In the beginning of the forum, I posted some 20 slam play hands in this forum called "good idea" I think. The purpose was to show easy slam hands that at least five people screwed up on BBO during the play.

Now I will try a similar series related to hands that more than a few people botched the defense. These are all beginner/intermediate hands. The bidding is from at least one of the tables but is similar to auctions from many tables.

If you played this hand, please don't share the hidden hands with others. Advanced or higher players, this isn't really for you. Answer in a few days, or use the spoiler tags. This is not a difficult hand (or else it wouldn't be in this forum) but does require some thought before playing. Nearly everyone got this hand wrong at the table 11 our 13 players got it wrong. The trick is to know why the right play is right, not just to find it given this history.

Opening lead T, north plays the KING

This post has been edited by inquiry: 2011-August-25, 15:44
Reason for edit: to add the opening lead

--Ben--

#2 User is online   wank 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,532
  • Joined: 2008-July-13

Posted 2011-August-25, 15:10

as we're not given the lead or any of the cards played by the declaring side, i presume we're just here to laugh at our bidding.
0

#3 User is offline   Antrax 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,263
  • Joined: 2011-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-August-26, 13:00

Well, it looks like south is a minimum opener, which leaves 11-12 HCP for partner. Partner doesn't have the club ace. Partner probably has four clubs - if he had more he'd bid unusual 2NT most likely. So we know delcarer has four clubs and five spades, at most two diamonds which leaves 2-3 hearts.
So we need to ruff low and return a heart to finesse against declarer's possible heart ace. Declarer can go up with the ace, play two more rounds of trump, but we will score another trump trick and partner's supposed ace of diamonds and king of hearts before declarer has a chance to discard anything on the clubs. I think.
0

#4 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,472
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2011-August-26, 20:06

Nicely analyzed by Anthrax
.
Playing offense or defense, it is a good idea to count your tricks. You have two spade tricks, so you will need two red suit winners. You will get one, and only one, in diamonds so you need a heart trick. Your diamond trick will have to the ace, or you will need two heart tricks. What does this suggest for the defense?

On this hand, the West player was bidding some number of diamonds at almost every table, and when East ruffed the club opening lead, almost everyone returned a diamond. A couple of reasons for that, I guess. 1.) partner bid them, 2.) you can get enough ruff when partner wins his Ace, and 3.) dummy has a heart honor so some general rule might suggest lead up to weakness.

None of those reasons are good ones to lead a diamond. Let's start with the fact that one more club ruff would cost you a natural trump trick (but if you can get two more ruffs that would be very good). Second, your partners diamond trick will not be going anywhere. If your partner has the A he will always score it, if he only has the K, your side gets no diamond tricks.

The source of the fourth defensive trick has to be hearts. If partner has both aces, no harm no foul. If he has diamond ace and heart KING, partner will not be able to lead a heart from his side of the table. You need to return a heart in case partner has K and A,

Full analysis is probably something like what Anthrax stated. We don't think partner underled the A, and of course, we think South has all five missing spades for his 1 bid. So whatever hcp partner has they are only in the red suits. Partner seems to lack a good sequence lead (no AK, AK, KQJ. so at most has one heart honor (Ace or King) and a diamond holding headed by something like AQ, AQJ, AJ, KJ, or perhaps KQ. Partner probably doesn't have four hearts (no takeout double), seven diamonds (no jump to 3), or five clubs (as Anthrax said, no unusual 2NT). All that suggest partner might be 0=3=6=4, but it is not etched in stone. Turns out he was, but that is fairly immaterial here.

If declarer has 3, he will score 4, two diamond ruffs, three clubs, and a heart. Since you are sure declarer doesn't have 1, that means you need to play him for 2. That will give him the potential for 2, 1 ruff, 4 and 3, or even 4, 4, one red suit ace and a diamond ruff. You can ruff one more of his clubs, but then he takes five spades in hand.

After ruffing the , the only defense that works is to return a heart immediately. That way, you will be able to score both your red suit winners. If south makes the mistake of ducking the heart return you could actually set this two tricks.


--Ben--

#5 User is offline   Antrax 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,263
  • Joined: 2011-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-August-26, 22:50

What I don't get is declarer playing the club king at trick 1. Why not unblock the suit?
0

#6 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,793
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2011-August-27, 02:55

There is no reason not to play the club king, you'll have plenty of opportunities to unblock the ace later. Moreover, if you play low, both opponents immediately know you have the ace, so if it doesn't matter it is better technique to play the king.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#7 User is offline   BunnyGo 

  • Lamentable Bunny
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,494
  • Joined: 2008-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, ME

Posted 2011-August-27, 07:31

On the same note as Han, it's better to ruff with anything except the 4 of spades. Just because ruffing higher cannot cost a trick, and so (I think) it is slightly better technique. If nothing else, it'll hide the spade situation from the declarer.
Bridge Personality: 44 44 43 34

Never tell the same lie twice. - Elim Garek on the real moral of "The boy who cried wolf"
0

#8 User is offline   Antrax 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,263
  • Joined: 2011-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-August-27, 09:24

By playing K and it not being covered, wasn't the position of the ace given to both defenders? (W wouldn't underlead, certainly not a T, and E would cover as dummy clearly doesn't lack entries)
0

#9 User is offline   quiddity 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,052
  • Joined: 2008-November-21

Posted 2011-August-27, 11:07

Whether or not he plays the K is irrelevant on this hand. On another hand perhaps it might help to be in dummy at trick 2 to lead trumps through the doubler.
Declarer is known to have some club length and all the top clubs so he can play them however he wants.
0

#10 User is offline   vuroth 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,459
  • Joined: 2007-June-03
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-August-29, 08:54



This is where I got fowled up. I missed that dummy would not have 5 running clubs under this scenario, though I guess if partner started with 7 diamonds instead of 6 maybe?



Ok so maybe partner signals a discouraging heart the first time, so we lead diamonds the second time.

It's the possibilities that crush me on hands like this. I admire the experts, who can see at trick 1 that the above hands aren't problems, but inquiry's hand is.
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.

"gwnn" said:

rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
0

#11 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

  • Limit bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,158
  • Joined: 2004-November-02
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:England
  • Interests:Bridge, classical music, skiing... but I spend more time earning a living than doing any of those

Posted 2011-August-29, 11:33

It's not a point about the defence, but the bidding. We defend correctly to get 4Sxx one off for +200.
5D looks a pretty solid contract to me. Make West's heart holding A9x rather than K9x and 6D has play. Perhaps when we have 4-card support and a void we should think of raising partner's suit.
0

#12 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,793
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2011-August-30, 04:44

Vuroth, to beat 4S we need 4 tricks. In neither of your constructions can we beat the contract. Whether declarer has 3 or 4 clubs is not so important, the point is that to have a chance to beat the contract we'll need to make a heart trick.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
1

#13 User is offline   vuroth 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,459
  • Joined: 2007-June-03
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-August-30, 09:32

Sorry, han, I guess I'm very much stuck in matchpoints mode, where giving up the overtrick in diamonds is still a complete disaster.
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.

"gwnn" said:

rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users