[bluecalm]

---

Auction is natural, precision style (2d = natural but 12+ in principle)
(I switched N and S in bidding; strong hand opened 1C)
1st trick:
4♥ 2♥ J♥ K♥

Your move.
I tried to solve it and I am pretty sure I would play better than actual declarer.
I think my friend (polled about it) would play even better yet.
And you ?

[WellSpyder]

Warning - off-topic. Interested to see the Precision 1♣ opening here. I would like to be able to open hands like this with a strong 1♣ but this would be an illegal agreement in England.

[bluecalm]

Wow, are you serious ? It's better hand than most 16's.
Both Meckstroth Rodwell and Greco Hampson open most 15's with 6carder with 1C. Maybe they don't play in England too often though...

[kenberg]

When I saw that there were two replies I figured I would just read the solution. Figured wrong.


Maybe I lack imagination but I will try to get five diamond tricks. Small to the ace, claim of the Q falls, otherwise back in clubs, run the diamond Jack. Possibly the 9 fell at trick 2. I don't care, since I need all five tricks.

I await more imaginative lines. I suppose I can cash the ace of clubs at trick 3. Miracles can happen if you give them a chance.

As to the 1♣ opening, even the acbl allows this hand to be opened with a precision club, or so I believe. I don't play precision but I have had such hands opened against me and it would never cross my mind to object.

[WellSpyder]

bluecalm, on 2011-March-01, 06:57, said:

Wow, are you serious ? It's better hand than most 16's.
Both Meckstroth Rodwell and Greco Hampson open most 15's with 6carder with 1C. Maybe they don't play in England too often though...

Yes, I'm serious. English rules for a strong club require one of a) 16 points; b) 8 clear tricks (usually more relevant for strong 2s than for 1♣ openings); or c) "rule of 25", ie a total of 25 when you add the length of the two longest suits to the high-card points. This hand fails on all 3 counts.

I have been trying to get the EBU Laws & Ethics committee to see the problems this causes for the not-exactly hyper-modern system of Precision for a while now, but so far without success.

[bluecalm]

Quote

I await more imaginative lines. I suppose I can cash the ace of clubs at trick 3. Miracles can happen if you give them a chance.

One thing is that you didn't see 3, 6, 8, 9, Q, A of hearts;
The lead could be from:
AQ94
AQ84
AQ64
A984
A964
A864

and all of those with 3♥ added.
I don't know if looking at our hands/bidding the 4-4 or 3-5 heart split is a priori more likely but I would guess they are very close which makes 4-4 heart break an even shot.
If hearts are 4-4 you can run spades receiving a lot of additional chances (spades 4-3, Q of d falling, C finesse, them being endplayed after cashing hearts etc.). With just a diamond finesse you loose to Qxxx onside anyway which makes it about 40% shot according to my quick calculations

[WellSpyder]

bluecalm, on 2011-March-01, 09:39, said:

One thing is that you didn't see 3, 6, 8, 9, Q, A of hearts;
The lead could be from:
AQ94
AQ84
AQ64
A984
A964
A864

and all of those with 3♥ added.
I don't know if looking at our hands/bidding the 4-4 or 3-5 heart split is a priori more likely but I would guess they are very close which makes 4-4 heart break an even shot.
If hearts are 4-4 you can run spades receiving a lot of additional chances (spades 4-3, Q of d falling, C finesse, them being endplayed after cashing hearts etc.). With just a diamond finesse you loose to Qxxx onside anyway which makes it about 40% shot according to my quick calculations

I was certainly trying to think about the odds of hearts being 4-4. But the lead could also be from a 3-card suit, couldn't it? - the bidding has certainly suggested a heart lead might be an idea even if not from length.

[kenberg]

I certainly agree that my line is not exactly stellar. After diamond to the ace, the Q not appearing, something like 40% sounds right (at best). I gave some thought to playing for hearts to be 4-4 but I am not so sure it's a good idea. On the auction some heart might well be led from many holdings, perhaps from A94? I considered maybe just leading back a heart and maybe that's right. If they are 4-4 then we know what to do, if they are 5-3 we can perhaps still try to pick up diamonds. I was too lazy to really think through whether I can preserve my options on the run of the hearts, but in some cases I guess you could. For example, suppose the five hearts on the right. On the third heart a spade can be tossed from dummy, on the fourth heart, when lefty shows out, now we have to go with the diamonds so we can toss another spade. Even if lefty is leading the fourth heart at trick 4, we might get the guess right, but I think some guessing will be involved.

So if I am playing for my life, maybe I think through the consequences of returning a heart. Of course if lefty wins and shifts to a spade, I will need to think some about this also. These opponents are supposed to be clever, right?

[Trumpace]

kenberg, on 2011-March-01, 10:14, said:

<snip>
On the auction some heart might well be led from many holdings, perhaps from H94?

<snip>

Not just that, bluecalm also seems to be ignoring the possibility of _not_ getting a heart lead from some of the four card holdings he talks about (even though a heart lead seems to be called for, some might choose a passive lead because of the bad 4 card suit, of course feel free to call BS on this :-)).

[bluecalm]

Quote

of course feel free to call BS on this :-)).

I call BS on this but I admit that 3 card suit is possible. I am so used playing 2nd from Hxx that I forgot that standard is the lowest :-)

Anyway, what's the line ?

[Trumpace]

bluecalm, on 2011-March-01, 11:30, said:

I call BS on this but I admit that 3 card suit is possible. I am so used playing 2nd from Hxx that I forgot that standard is the lowest :-)

Anyway, what's the line ?

I would probably play the same as kenberg.

[fred]

Maybe the suit you should be playing on is hearts. You rate to learn whether or not they are 4-4.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[kenberg]

fred, on 2011-March-01, 11:40, said:

Maybe the suit you should be playing on is hearts. You rate to learn whether or not they are 4-4.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

Heart to the Jack and your king, you return a heart, lho wins the ace and plays a small spade. Up or down?

Surely the entire world knows that you do not have the king so this play is not hard for lho regardless of how many hearts are cashing.

[Trumpace]

kenberg, on 2011-March-01, 11:43, said:

Heart to the Jack and your king, you return a heart, lho wins the ace and plays a small spade. Up or down?

Surely the entire world knows that you do not have the king so this play is not hard for lho regardless of how many hearts are cashing.

If from the cards played you aren't sure hearts are 4-4, you go up with the SA and switch to the D finesse line, so you don't really lose much over that line.

Is there a downside of playing hearts? I guess RHO can play a club trying to knock out your hand entry, perhaps removing chances of catering to singleton ♦Q.

[fred]

kenberg, on 2011-March-01, 11:43, said:

Heart to the Jack and your king, you return a heart, lho wins the ace and plays a small spade. Up or down?

That is the sort of question that is a lot easier to answer when you are at the table

Quote

Surely the entire world knows that you do not have the king so this play is not hard for lho regardless of how many hearts are cashing.

Maybe, but you lose nothing by trying it and you also get to see two more hearts before making your decision. Many RHOs will not even think about giving false count at trick 2 and, if the heart you return is the 10, that might result in some additional problems for the defense.

I say "maybe" because if your LHO has the King of spades it may not be obvious to him if a spade shift rates to be a good play or a disaster - he may not know what honor cards you hold in the minors.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebsae.com