[mike777]

Scoring: IMP

Bid then play

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1) How do you bid?

2) If you get to 6s how do you play the hand? Assume LHO leads A of D and then A of H.


These two hands just show sometimes we can beat World Champs even with our intermediate level skills as long as we concentrate .

[POJC]

Biding:
2♣ (8½ trick, i don't want p to pass)-2♦(0-1 controls)
2♥-2NT (5+ spades, 2♠ would be negative relay)
3♦ (5-4)-3♠ (6 spades)
4♠ (missing too many controls)-6♠/pass(practical bid since p will never guess our hand)

[plaur]

I guess with my live partner the bidding would go
1♥ - 1♠
3♦ - 3♠
4♠ - pass

As for 6♠: I need ♣K onside and I need the ♣K to fallout. Say I run 4 rounds of spades, then im downto ♣K second ondside, not good. So I need to ruff a club.
(Assume LHO leads A of D and then A of H) Ruff, ♣Q, small ♣ to Ace, ♦ to ruff, ♣ to ruff.
If the ♣K is still out there I cash one spade and try to run my 3 red winners and then ruff a red suit back with the 9. That suit will have to be 4-4 or ♠10.
If the ♣K has fallen out: cash one spade and ruff a ♥ back and run trumps. Must be 3-2 or the 10 fall out.

Thats as far my analysis would ever go at the table :-)

[FrancesHinden]

I would play in 4♠, not six.
Nobody has yet suggested the line I would take in 6 (hidden).

Spoiler

The obvious line of ruffing clubs out and drawing trumps needs trumps 3-2. In fact a cross-ruff looks better odds.

Ruff the heart.
Run the CQ, which has to win. Continue with a club to the ace. (If the CK has appeared, draw trumps via a diamond ruff to hand & run clubs).
King of diamonds discarding a club. King of hearts discarding a club.
Diamond ruff low.
Club ruff, on which LHO plays the King.
Red suit ruff of my choice low.
Club ruff.
Red suit ruff of my choice with the 9.
All I have left now are the QJ of spades.

All sensible lines need clubs 3-2 with the King onside (or singleton K onside). This line in addition needs LHO to have at least 7 red cards and not the S10, or at least 8 red cards, and needs me to pick it if LHO has extreme shortage in one of the red suits.

I think this is better than playing for trumps 3-2, which also needs some red suit ruffs to hold up.

[FrancesHinden]

Or there's an alternative line, namely

Spoiler

Ruff the heart, AK of spades, heart ruff, queen of spades discarding a diamond, club finesse. This makes if hearts are 4-4, or LHO has singleton or doubleton king of clubs.

This is probably worse than my other line, unless you have some strong reason to suspect particular red suit breaks.

[Free]

POJC, on Sep 6 2005, 03:50 PM, said:

Biding:
2♣ (8½ trick, i don't want p to pass)-2♦(0-1 controls)
2♥-2NT (5+ spades, 2♠ would be negative relay)
3♦ (5-4)-3♠ (6 spades)
4♠ (missing too many controls)-6♠/pass(practical bid since p will never guess our hand)

Where do you see 8 tricks???

So opponents are quiet? Here my auction in that situation:

1♣ - 1♦ (negative)
1♥ - 1NT (4+♠)
2♣ - 3♣ (55+ ♠-♣)
3♦ - 3♥ (short ♥)
3♠ - 4♦ (6-0-2-5)
4♥ - 4♠ (signoff, obligated by the 4♥ bid)

North only bids relays, 1♣ shows 15+HCP any hand.

The relay system doesn't have a bid for 6610's, so describe it as good as possible. Better to show void ♥ imo than 1-1 in the reds.

[Jurek S]

Good hand for Polish Club:

1♣ (18+ variant) - 1♦ (0-7)
1♥ 11-15 3+♥ or 18 - 20 5♥ - 2 ♠
4♠ - pass

Spoiler

Might play it: ♣ finesse, if works, black aces, red winners, ruff ♦, ruff ♣
I'm not going to lose 1-2 imps looking for the best way to 10 sure tricks

[POJC]

Free, on Sep 7 2005, 11:59 AM, said:

POJC, on Sep 6 2005, 03:50 PM, said:

Biding:
2♣ (8½ trick, i don't want p to pass)-2♦(0-1 controls)
2♥-2NT (5+ spades, 2♠ would be negative relay)
3♦ (5-4)-3♠ (6 spades)
4♠ (missing too many controls)-6♠/pass(practical bid since p will never guess our hand)

Where do you see 8 tricks???

I normally do this by taking 13 and subtracting the loosers ;-)
I agree this is not a clearcut 2C opener. I do it since with this hand i don't want P to pass, my opening bid.

only opening 2C would provide any chance of reaching 6♠ IMO

[mike777]

POJC, on Sep 7 2005, 10:14 AM, said:

Free, on Sep 7 2005, 11:59 AM, said:

POJC, on Sep 6 2005, 03:50 PM, said:

Biding:
2♣ (8½ trick, i don't want p to pass)-2♦(0-1 controls)
2♥-2NT (5+ spades, 2♠ would be negative relay)
3♦ (5-4)-3♠ (6 spades)
4♠ (missing too many controls)-6♠/pass(practical bid since p will never guess our hand)

Where do you see 8 tricks???

I normally do this by taking 13 and subtracting the loosers ;-)
I agree this is not a clearcut 2C opener. I do it since with this hand i don't want P to pass, my opening bid.

only opening 2C would provide any chance of reaching 6♠ IMO

Well when I was given the south hand I bid
1H=1S
3D=3S
4C=6C
6S

that seemed normal and natural to me but I guess not, given these responses.
6s was makable given a normal intermediate level line of play.

[mike777]

Jlall, on Sep 7 2005, 11:34 AM, said:

I strongly disagree with a 3D rebid in a natural auction. you have 11 points in the black suits and 8 in your 2 suits. You are also semi-balanced. This is not the right hand, I like a 2N rebid or even a 2D rebid much better. I also think 4C should show 3 spades, while a 4S bid should show 3 but I'm sure thats a minority view.

Thank you very much for the expert feedback Justin, your comments are thoughtful and understandable.

I posted these two hands in the hope of getting more beginner and int. level feedback. I want to emphasize that I think even when lower level players give wrong or even what the experts think are silly responses we can learn and grow simply by comparing our thinking process to the experts and learning. See Justin's thinking process as just one example. See Frances's play example as another among many others.

My other goal was to argue that we int. players can win a heck of alot of hands just with the skill level we already possess if we concentrate (me!) and just try and play and bid normal (me again!). Trying to find the perfect way to bid 4D& 5club hands should not be our top priority no matter how much fun it is, and it is , to debate the issue.

I encourage more responses from BBO players so we can all learn and grow in this great game that we love....ok hate sometimes .

[Fluffy]

The beginnisg seems easy

1♥-1♠
2NT

Then I am not sure if I would blast 4♠,6♣ or go on a slow way:

-----3♠
4♣-4♦
4♠*-6♠

4♠= no heart first round control.