[inquiry]

Winston,

I have taken a closer look (well first look) at your proposed structure...

I appreciate your concerns over BIG BALANCED hands, with two suiters, with three suiters, and with big one suiters. This is a lot of stress on 2♣ auctions that start you off at a high level, and on partner who can have a variety of hand types (especially if he can respond 2♦ on virtually all hands.

I suspect if the opponents cooperate, and pass through out, all will be well. They very well may when you have 23+ BAL. I doubt this is the case when you are two suited. In fact, when you are strong two suited, that is just WHEN THEY ARE most likely to enter the fray. They will be two suited themselves or have a long suit (one of your short ones) a lot of the time. After you open 2♣ and they butt into your auction, maybe with a raise by their partner, you are back to trying to describe strong two suited versus strong one suited (or even strong 3 suited) hands at a high level. This gets, as you are aware messy. Your hope that your extra hcp for your strong two suiter will keep them out of the auction. It might, but that means you maybe left holding the bag on strong two suiters at the one level... and they will still enter the auction ESPECIALLY NOT VUL a lot when you have the strong 2 suiter.

My solution to this delemia is to remove teh "baby" strong NT from 2♣, my 23-24 BAL hands are stuffed into 2♦. So the weakest BAL hand I can have is 25+ if I open 2♣. I don't open strong 2 suiters with two clubs (using MisIry, don't you know)... so if I don't have strong BAL, I have either three suiter, or I have Strong one suiter. This simpifies my auction. I open 2♣, if they interfer and I bid a suit, I don't have another one. If I double, I am three suited, if I pass, I am BAL or weakish one suiter (for the strong opening 2 bid). Also,I open 2♦ with monster minor one suiters that are not game force. This is very useful, as over competition, I can bid a minor even at three or four level, it is absolutely forcing, I will never have a second suit (5+ longer), and I will not be balanced or semi-balanced.

This makes interference much less likely to be effective at least from the stand point of describing my hand. And one thing is for sure, it is virtually impossible to keep me from describing my strong two suiters if I get to open.

But I will say this, if the opponents leave you alone, your method will clearly work. Sadly, opening 2♣ seems like a green light for opponents to stick their nose into your auction.

However, I am not sure you NEED so many negative bids (2H up)... Most people use one... but I have found two useful. By bidding 2♥ I promise two things, no king, no two queens, and no likelyhood to win a trick in a heart contract. (I might bid 2♥ with Qxx of hearts however, so shoot me). If I bid 2♠, I show the same kind of hand, except I think I might well win a trick if we play in hearts. I think these two bids convey the information partner needs to know to bid intellegently. Adding more negative bids to the mix hardly help.

Ben

[Winstonm]

inquiry, on Sep 6 2005, 02:09 PM, said:

Winston,

I have taken a closer look (well first look) at your proposed structure...

I appreciate your concerns over BIG BALANCED hands, with two suiters, with three suiters, and with big one suiters. This is a lot of stress on 2♣ auctions that start  you off at a high level, and on partner who can have a variety of hand types (especially if he can respond 2♦ on virtually all hands.

I suspect if the opponents cooperate, and pass through out, all will be well. They very well may when you have 23+ BAL. I doubt this is the case when you are two suited. In fact, when you are strong two suited, that is just WHEN THEY ARE most likely to enter the fray. They will be two suited themselves or have a long suit (one of your short ones) a lot of the time.  After you open 2♣ and they butt into your auction, maybe with a raise by their partner, you are back to trying to describe strong two suited versus strong one suited (or even strong 3 suited) hands at a high level. This gets, as you are aware messy. Your hope that your extra hcp for your strong two suiter will keep them out of the auction. It might, but that means you maybe left holding the bag on strong two suiters at the one level... and they will still enter the auction ESPECIALLY NOT VUL a lot when you have the strong 2 suiter.

My solution to this delemia is to remove teh "baby" strong NT from 2♣, my 23-24 BAL hands are stuffed into 2♦. So the weakest BAL hand I can have is 25+ if I open 2♣. I don't open strong 2 suiters with two clubs (using MisIry, don't you know)... so if I don't have strong BAL, I have either three suiter, or I have Strong one suiter. This simpifies my auction. I open 2♣, if they interfer and I bid a suit, I don't have another one. If I double, I am three suited, if I pass, I am BAL or weakish one suiter (for the strong opening 2 bid). Also,I open 2♦ with monster minor one suiters that are not game force. This is very useful, as over competition, I can bid a minor even at three or four level, it is absolutely forcing, I will never have a second suit (5+ longer), and I will not be balanced or semi-balanced.

This makes interference much less likely to be effective at least from the stand point of describing my hand.  And one thing is for sure, it is virtually impossible to keep me from describing my strong two suiters if I get to open.

But I will say this, if the opponents leave you alone, your method will clearly work. Sadly, opening 2♣ seems like a green light for opponents to stick their nose into your auction.

However, I am not sure you NEED so many negative bids (2H up)... Most people use one... but I have found two useful. By bidding 2♥ I promise two things, no king, no two queens, and no likelyhood to win a trick in a heart contract. (I might  bid 2♥ with Qxx of hearts however, so shoot me). If I bid 2♠, I show the same kind of hand, except I think I might well win a trick if we play in hearts. I think these two bids convey the information partner needs to know to bid intellegently. Adding more negative bids to the mix hardly help.

Ben

Ben:

Thanks for the great input and time to look - it is appreciated. You make a good point about interference when two-suited - if we do have a fit they likely do too and we can get preempted out of the auction. Maybe for this structure 2-suiters need to go and leave 2 hand types to bid.

Two clubs is certainly the albatross of standard bidding.

The key, I believe, is what you inferred, that eliminating certain hand types is what is necessary to increase the accuracy - then the quetion comes in where do you put those hands, what do your sacrifice to do so, ad infinitum.

And you are right in that equally important in a structured artificial system is a equally complex system of handling obstruction - I learned this many years ago playing Power Precision right out of Sontag's book - the system was virtually unplayabe unless you took the time to learn all the responses they had created for all types of interference.

It seems a lot of times that what we are trying to do is merge artificial with natural and they are different creatures indeed - like trying to take parts from a Mercedes and put them on a Model T.

Thanks again for the input,

Winston