[pigpenz]

Was kibbing an ACBL tourney today and the auction:
1NT 2♥(trasnnfer) 2♠ and so on

2♠ bidders partner ended up in 3♣doubled making

ACBL director said the 2♠ needed to be alerted.
I think this is nonsense, the cue bid itself is selfalerting.
Any opinions??

I think it is common sense that it is take out either 2 or 3 suiter!

[pclayton]

Like others have said, cue bids in the ACBL are specifically not alerted. I can't see why this would be an exception.

[Al_U_Card]

I play that 2S que-bid as a sort of Michaels where it shows H and D specifically. I would not think of alerting it (I play in the ACBL f2f) unless it was a transfer to C or the minors and then it might be a special alert or even a "transfer" announcement possibly?

[inquiry]

I don't know why you guys keep saying in the ACBL cue-bids never have to be alerted. Repeating it over and over does not make it so.

Here is what the ACBL regulations on alerting cue-bid actually says

Quote

4) CUEBIDS

Most cuebids are not Alertable. However, any cuebid which conveys a very unusual or unexpected meaning still requires an Alert.

EXAMPLE: 1♠-2♥-Pass-2♠
If the 2♠ bid is a heart raise with values or some constructive hand, no Alert is required. If the 2♠ bid is a transfer to clubs, an Alert is required.

EXAMPLE: 1♦-2♦
If the 2♦ bid shows the majors (Michaels), clubs and spades (top/bottom) or some other two-suiter (not including diamonds, no Alert is required.

It is fuzzer that that, since 2♠ on the auction here would seem to be a cue-bid by the definition that it is unlikely for the bidder to want to play in spades (consider it a viturtual cue-bid), but this is unlike normal cue-bids and there is probalby no set way to play this bid. For instance, don't you think it should be alerted if it is a weak bid showing clubs? How about a top/bottom cue-bid? What if 2♠ here showed a good 3♣ bid (and an immediate 3♣ was weak, while a 2[NT] bid here showed a good 3♦ bid (and an immediate 3♦ was weak? There is so much 2♠ coud be.. michaels, transfer, top/bottom, diamonds and a black suit, take oout of spades, who knows. And yes, some people (not me) might consider this to play (yuck).

I would think 2♠ here is odd enough, and non-standard enough, that it is "self-alerting" and the opponents have to ask what it means, but the fact that the next hand doesn't ask, and just passes, might that not send UI to the 2♥ bidder? (I don't care what it means, I am just glad I didn't have to bid 2♠ with this minimum no-fit hand).

This virtual cue-bid is very similar to situations with unusual versus unusual. Here, we cue-bid their suits with specific meaning, and when we don't cue-bid their suits, that have meanigs as well.. So well ALL ALERT our "cue-bids" then (or we should, it is alertable). So why not here? And anyway, at the very least, everyone needs to stop spreading the false story that cue-bids in ACBL are always not-alertable.

ben

[pclayton]

Ben:

Don't seek logic in the Ayatollah's regulations. You won't find any.

[pigpenz]

the real question here is that can you ever be in a situation where by not alerting the cue bid you can give the opponents a chance to claim they were damaged??

From all of the chatter here is sounds pretty obvious that left hand opp of the cue bidder should ask!

Obviously when one opens 4♣ namyats and opp bids 4♥ it is not to play.

[inquiry]

pigpenz, on Aug 25 2005, 08:11 PM, said:

the real question here is that can you ever be in a situation where by not alerting the cue bid you can give the opponents a chance to claim they were damaged??

From all of the chatter here is sounds pretty obvious that left hand opp of the cue bidder should ask!

Obviously when one opens 4♣ namyats and opp bids 4♥ it is not to play.

Why can't 4♥ be to play, psyche exposing?

I don't think you meant "obvious" I think you meant, it probably should not be to play. But who made you (or me, or the ACBL) god of what is obvious?

[helene_t]

Maybe the 2♠-bidders had no agreement, just defaulting to common sense ("this must be some sort of take-out") ?

[mycroft]

It would not surprise me if many people don't play 4M natural after 4m Namyats on the same grounds that 1NT-2C (Landy)-2M is frequently treated as natural - because a significant number of "Landy" 2C and "Namyats" 4C bids are natural.

Michael.

[keylime]

I agree with you wholeheartedly Ben. This nonsense about self-alerting cuebids is maddening.