[andych]

Not familiar with the rules.

1) Partner opens 2S (10-16 both minors)
2) RHO X
3) Holding 3334, 5hcp, I bid 3C. Take 2 secnds or so.
4) LHO Pass
5) Partner Pass
6) RHO bid 4H
7) I consider for sth like 5 seconds or so and bid 5C
8) LHO Pass
9) Partner Pass
10) RHO 5H
11) I pass
12) LHO pass
13) Partner bid 6C (partner is holding 1165)

14) RHO called director, claiming I have a hesitation in 7) and my partner could then not bid 6C.

15) Director ask if I agree there was hesitation, which I did not agree.

16) Director ask my LHO if there was a hesitation, he said no comments.

17) Director ask if there was a break in tempo. LHO said yes.

18) Bidding continues. Contract 6CX

19) Results 6CX -3 (500). 5H is cold (650).



a) What is a hesitation? Is there a time range? e.g. anything longer than 5 seconds is a hesitation?

What is a BIT? Is there a time range? e.g. anything longer than 5 seconds is a hesitation?

[mike777]

Of course even 10 seconds is not a break in tempo.

The main issue is how credible are you and your partner's statements.
In person I can look you in the eye, listen to your tone of voice, body language, etc and that of your opponents.
Online I would give any doubt to the opp on this bidding. To repeat, I would ask how long did you and partner hesitate to the opp and you and your partner and then make my ruling.

[andych]

Thx mike. It was not online. It was F2F bridge.

I believe the time I quote (2s for 3C and 5s for 5C) are close to actual.
There is no considerable hesitation. In fact LHO agree though he said no comment in 16)

I would agree I took longer to bid 5C than I bid 3C. Was that a hesitation? Was that a BIT?

6CX -3 is the same result at the other table. Bidding decisions seems normal to me.

[Elianna]

mike777, on Aug 20 2005, 07:38 PM, said:

Of course even 10 seconds is not a break in tempo.

The main issue is how credible are you and your partner's statements.
In person I can look you in the eye, listen to your tone of voice, body language, etc and that of your opponents.
Online I would give any doubt to the opp on this bidding. To repeat, I would ask how long did you and partner hesitate to the opp and then make my ruling.

I agree that I would ask more questions (specifically: Are opps claiming a hesitation noticeably longer than 10 sec, or are the just saying a 5sec hesitation).

Secondly, even if there was a hesitation, that doesn't bar partner. He's just required to not base his choices on that. This means (in a short way of saying it) that if there was an action specifically related to the hesitation, he should discard that action as an option in deciding what to bid.

What would a hesitation over 4♥ show (if we agreed that there was one)? If he passed, it clearly shows that he was thinking of bidding, and I would agree that if partner of the hesitator bid needs to be wary. If he doubled, it is usually because the doubler has uncertaintanty, and is not too sure this is a good decision, and again, partner needs to be careful to be ethical.

But if he bids 5♣? I don't believe that a hesitation suggests bidding 6♣ to partner. I think that the fact that he BID rather than doubled suggested to partner to bid 6♣, and that information is clearly AI to partner.

I just don't really know if I could be convinced to overturn this table result, but I guess that if opponents put a well-thought-through case that I haven't thought of, I could be convinced.

[awm]

Table result should stand. It seems unlikely that there's a problem at all. Certainly you were not expecting RHO to bid 4♥ and this is a skip of several levels. If you were to bid quickly over such a call, that would in fact create issues. So given the auction, something like 10 seconds is probably normal tempo. The fact that LHO didn't make a stronger statement also implies no break in tempo.

But regardless, let's assume there was a break. Say you thought for a full minute. Clearly your logical choices in such a situation are pass, double, and 5♣. If you think and then bid 5♣ that's an indication that you weren't sure bidding was right. So either you thought 4♥ might not be making, or that 5♣ might be a bad sacrifice. In either case all partner's unauthorized information points to bidding 6♣ being wrong. The rule is, partner cannot choose an action suggested by the hesitation when logical alternatives exist. Since the hesitation in no way suggests that bidding 6♣ would be more successful, table result should still stand.

If you were to hesitate and then pass or double, and then partner bid 5♣, there would be a clear issue. I can't imagine an adjustment on this auction.

[jdulmage]

no problem here - it stands.

[andych]

Thanks for the insightful response.

Realize now that my hesitation in 7) (if valid) should only suggest pd not to call 6C. If I bid 5C quickly instead there is a problem.

How does director resolve if there is hesitation. RHO said there is hesitation. I disagree. LHO said no comments. Is it only established with both sides agreement?

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

something like 10 seconds is probably normal tempo.

After the jump to 4♥, 10 seconds is not only normal, it's required tempo in most leagues. You are supposed to habitually pause 10 seconds after all jump bids, before making any call, and always act like you are at least considering multiple options. If you are taking calls after 5 seconds, that is too fast. Consistently take the time whether you have a problem or not, then no one can tell whether you had a problem. Remember to regularly do this even on auctions like 1nt-3nt, after all sometimes you consider making a lead-directing double.

If you took 15 seconds, it would be considered a break in tempo.

Now even if there had been an actual break in tempo, it does not mean partner is barred. The break in tempo has to suggest that bidding 6♣ is more likely to be successful than passing. I see no reason why this should be the case on the given auction, so result should have stood.

Now, if you had broken tempo over 4♥ then passed, rather than bidding, then partner bid 5♣, it likely would have been rolled back.

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

Realize now that my hesitation in 7) (if valid) should only suggest pd not to call 6C. If I bid 5C quickly instead there is a problem.

Which is why you should always take the full 10 seconds ...

Quote

How does director resolve if there is hesitation. RHO said there is hesitation. I disagree. LHO said no comments. Is it only established with both sides agreement?

In an actual BIT situation, if there is disagreement over whether it actually occurred, the director will usually take a look at your hand, then make a judgment call as to whether a BIT was likely given your holding.

Follow skip bid procedure and avoid problems in the future ... opps sometimes still complain because 10 seconds feels like a very long time, but directors are aware of how long this actually is. If it's actually 20 seconds it will feel like an eternity & usually there is no disagreement about whether there is BIT.

[Elianna]

Stephen Tu, on Aug 20 2005, 09:15 PM, said:

Quote

How does director resolve if there is hesitation. RHO said there is hesitation. I disagree. LHO said no comments. Is it only established with both sides agreement?

In an actual BIT situation, if there is disagreement over whether it actually occurred, the director will usually take a look at your hand, then make a judgment call as to whether a BIT was likely given your holding.

Follow skip bid procedure and avoid problems in the future ... opps sometimes still complain because 10 seconds feels like a very long time, but directors are aware of how long this actually is. If it's actually 20 seconds it will feel like an eternity & usually there is no disagreement about whether there is BIT.

Another thing to do (if possible) is try to get one of the disputers to demonstrate how long the break in tempo was. This will only work if none of the disputers are yellers.

But when all are sane, this actually works surprisingly well!

[kenberg]

It's always risky coming into someone else's dispute but it seems to me that if your pass of 5H (item 11 in your list) was in tempo then there can be no quarrel with your partner's 6C call. If anything can be inferred by your partner from your possible hesitation before bidding 5C over 4H it would appear to be that you were a little worried about even competing to the 5 level. That certainly is not a hint for him to go on to 6C over 5H.

If you stewed a bit after 5H, that's a different story, but taking the events as described I see no reason to reverse the table result.

Ken

[pigpenz]

one should always try to bid in tempo, even a fast pass conveys information to parnter. Proper think to do is just no problem thinking PASS. Same way when following to a suit.

[FrancesHinden]

andych, on Aug 20 2005, 09:31 PM, said:

a) What is a hesitation? Is there a time range? e.g. anything longer than 5 seconds is a hesitation?

What is a BIT? Is there a time range? e.g. anything longer than 5 seconds is a hesitation?

A BIT (break in tempo) is a more general form of hesitation (a BIT can be fast as well as slow), but for slow bids they are the same thing.

As for what constitutes a hestitation, that depends on the auction and on the players. Others have pointed out the benefits of the STOP procedure: waiting 5 seconds after a jump bid is usually not a hesitation.

If you habitually bid very quickly, then 5 seconds could be a BIT.
If you habitually take 10 seconds over every call, then taking 11 seconds isn't.

In addition, it depends on the auction. If RHO opens 1NT and you take 5 seconds before calling, that could easily be a hesitation as you'd usually pass quickly with nothing to think about. If something very unexpected happens even without a jump (say the auction goes 1D P 1H P 4H 4S) you would be expected to react slowly and a BIT is unlikely to give partner any information.

Many others have also pointed out that even if there was a hesitation before your 5C bid, that doesn't particularly suggest bidding 6C on partner's hand so the table result should stand anyway.

[Jurek S]

BIT after 4♥ is required by the jump-shift procedure. The only one other BIT is relevent - your pass after 5♥.

[inquiry]

You hesitated a while and then reprempted with 5♣. Over their 5♥ no one suggested you hesitatated at all. Sorry, for your opponents, but they are just out of luck. It was your bid of 5♣ that allows your partner to bid 5♥, not your hesitation before doing so. There is no grounds for the adjustment, and I would question the qualifications/experience of any TD who did so.

[mycroft]

3 things that others haven't talked about - their comments are accurate, so I'm not going to go over that:

1) if you never hesitate, especially after skip bids (most of your bids over jump 4H are no-2 second pause) then 5 seconds *is* a break in tempo, even if by skip bid procedure you are entitled to 10 or so. Actually, technically, it is the fast actions that are failing to follow procedure, but I have called the TD on "yes, I know she's entitled to 10 seconds, but this is the 13th board and all the rest of her actions over skips were lightning-fast. So, for *her*, this pause passed UI."

2) Time, especially to the thinker, is variable in bridge. Invariably, when I get called for BITs, the bidding side thinks it's x seconds, and their opponents thought it was 2x+y seconds. It's *always* that way - Einstein's Relativity Theory Simplified[1] proven yet again. Your 5 seconds, as you actively made a decision, was probably more than 5 seconds. I'm not accusing you of lying - everybody, including me (and I work *hard* at 9-11ing my 10 seconds) misjudges time spent thinking.

3) In order for BIT (really, any unauthorized information from partner - unwonted speed, hesitation, explanations of partner's bids, looking at your own CC, half-pulled (or said) bid card, ...) to be adjusted, four things have to happen:

a) There must have been UI transmitted
b) The UI must *demonstrably* suggest one (class of) action over another
c) Partner took the action demonstrably sugggested by the UI
d) There was another, logical, alternative to the action taken. The definition of Logical Alternative varies between countries; in North America it's pretty harsh (an action that would be considered by some of your peers, and that more than zero would actually take), in England it's a "25+% action" .

If all of these are true, then the Director is to adjust. Here, what the hesitation suggests to me is "I'm not sure that 5C is the best place partner; either we could be creamed, or 4H is going down, or I want to hit 5H" - one of which of course you had ("5C could be going for its life with no ruffs in my hand") But I don't think it demonstrably suggested "bid on vs pass 5H and let me decide vs hit 5H unless you really can't stand it". In fact, a prompt 5C would tend to show more shape and fewer hearts; thus making 6C more attractive than the think-5C.

Michael.

[1] "Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour," he once declared. "Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's relativity!"

[mike777]

Well I will just repeat my main point again
IF f2f we only have half the story or less at this point.
Let's find out if there were hesitations, long ones over the passes as well.

Let's chat with the opp and get their side. Hard to believe this is the full and complete opp complaint at this point.