[the hog]

The phantom censor has struck again - a whole thread has been deleted without a word of explanation. - High level decision - in the Advanced & Expert forum. Not only is this an arbitrary decision, it is extremely rude and arrogant to do this without a word of explanation. Censorship is an odious act, designed to stifle comments and debate.

Censor individual's posts if necessary and if they are offensive to another individual, but point out where they have been censored and give reasons why. The person deleting this thread owes the whole board an apology - you might moderate the board, but you don't own it. Surely this board belongs to all contributors.

[whereagles]

That's what happens when people behave like children. I fully agree with deletion.

[1eyedjack]

whereagles, on Jul 28 2005, 02:07 AM, said:

That's what happens when people behave like children.

But unless they actually ARE children, they require no protection.
Well, perhaps they are.

[luke warm]

whereagles, on Jul 28 2005, 02:07 AM, said:

That's what happens when people behave like children. I fully agree with deletion.

too subjective... i could hypothetically say that, in my opinion, 90% of your posts are childish and just delete them...

i heard my 5 year old grandson tell my 3 year old grandson, "you're acting like a child" ... go figure

[whereagles]

Who/when someone is being childish is up to the moderators to decide, not posters.

[coyot]

whereagles, on Jul 28 2005, 06:06 AM, said:

Who/when someone is being childish is up to the moderators to decide, not posters.

Still, moderating a thread and deleting a thread is a big difference.

I don't know what have the involved persons said to each other, but I am sure that a good part of this thread was good, interesting and clean - and I hate it when somebody exercises his/her moderator rights in such a brute measure.

BTW, being childish is nothing to have posts deleted for.

[csdenmark]

I wonder why censorship need to be a returning problem for this Forum!

This Invision Power Board offers filters to secure that a debate can be limited to using decent language.

I think controversial postings are not about odd bid-sequences but more substantial stuff with persons acting in a specific way. If such stuff is handled in a responsible way there is no good reason for any kind of intervention.

In general I prefer and I would very much like to see BBO to take proper action against persons violating the basic rules for decent human behavior as outlined in 'Rules for these sites'. All too much on BBO, not only in BBO Forum, looks like happening according to the 11th command:"Unless you are caught - it will be OK".

[uday]

I moved the thread away once it degenerated.

If we prefer I can remove the nonbridge content and restore the thread.

.

[Al_U_Card]

Censorship loses its power once the censored material is known. I have no problem with removing irrelevant material from a post (like marriage proposals or other offers to fornicate one way or the other.....lol) but would prefer to have it sent to an area where any may view it, particularly if the poster receives disciplinary action so we may all benefit from the situation.

[coyot]

uday, on Jul 28 2005, 08:22 AM, said:

I moved the thread away once it degenerated.

If we prefer I can remove the nonbridge content and restore the thread.

.

This would be most welcome. I think that the majority of readers would know EXACTLY where to make the dividing line. (If I recall correctly, it was a post that said stupid twice in the first sentence )

[csdenmark]

uday, on Jul 28 2005, 03:22 PM, said:

I moved the thread away once it  degenerated.

If we  prefer I can remove the nonbridge content and restore the thread.

.

Pity - makes no sense Uday!

The violation of the basic principles for freedom of expression you have violated. As I remember you have defended those rights earlier here in this Forum.

[luis]

I would prefer the supossed offending posts to be deleted keeping the thread. Losing some spicy bridge conversations just because some post was against the rules is a pity.

Having said that I think that we need to understand that just the fact of being BBO members and regular forum posters make us a group and we are very close to being a group of friends, we don't see each other but we share a passion (bridge) we share that we like debating about bridge, we share that we like/have or use a computer.

If we are friends then we must understand that a comment can't really be made with the intention of offending somebody, we bridge players, love to say nasty things about bids or things we don't like but that doesn't mean we have something against the person behind the bid, play or idea.

"What happens at the table stays at the table"

I guess that unless a person declares himself offended we don't need to censor acid comments or even comments that may look insulting. Sometimes rude language is the way a person uses to express his bridge opinion about something but I'm sure it's never personal.

In my particular case you can say whatever you want about my ideas, bids or plays I know you are talking about my bridge ideas and not me so I will never take offense and it may be in some way fun :-). Things like "Luis how can you be such an idiot?" are fine to me, my pd says things like that all the time :-)

Relax, post some ideas, have fun, isn't that the idea?

Luis

[scoob]

does invision support thread-splitting? i've only ever moderated forums using phpBB, but if it's available here it's a very handy feature - you can easily send the offtopic posts to a new thread (usually with a new title ie. "ITT people forget to stay on topic" which helps as a deterrent.

[pigpenz]

I would prefer to see someone banned from the board for inappropriate use to sensorship. I think we are big enough to handle comments....You can always close or lock the thread, censorship serves no one

[ochinko]

luis, on Jul 28 2005, 05:19 PM, said:

Things like "Luis how can you be such an idiot?" are fine to me, my pd says things like that all the time :-)

Strange, I've never heard that from a partner. And I'd be pretty surprised to hear it, since my name is not Luis

Seriously, Luis has a point. Not only we should try not to offend others, but also not to be too easily offended.

Petko

[Walddk]

As a citizen in a country that was occupied for five years during World War II, it gives me goose bumps to hear the word "censorship".

Let me quote from the Constitution of the Kingdom of Denmark:

Censur og andre forebyggende forholdsregler kan ingensinde påny indføres.

This translates to:

Censorship and other preventive measures can never be reintroduced.

I accept that the BBO Forums are not ruled by our constitution, but I find it sad that an entire thread is deleted as a consequence of one or more insulting or defamatory posts (I don't even know what they are).

Maybe we are just paranoid.

Roland

[Free]

There's censorship and there's censorship.
You can delete entire threads from the moment someone violates rules (or if a certain someone interpretes some words the wrong way). Nobody likes it, the forum loses some thread which might've been interesting, why not close the entire discussion group (advanced & expert-class bridge) or even the entire forum?,...
However, you can also just remove the 'offensive' material, post something about your actions, maybe punish the offender, but at least leave everyone else alone and don't punish them. If you can solve the problem by deleting 1 post (or just a few), then I even find it unacceptable to lock or delete a thread.

We all know we're from different countries, sometimes language gets translated or interpreted the wrong way. Can't we at least be a little understanding and reasonable before taking radical actions???

[csdenmark]

Walddk, on Jul 28 2005, 04:52 PM, said:

As a citizen in a country that was occupied for five years during World War II, it gives me goose bumps to hear the word "censorship".

Let me quote from the Constitution of the Kingdom of Denmark:

Censur og andre forebyggende forholdsregler kan ingensinde påny indføres.

This translates to:

Censorship and other preventive measures can never be reintroduced.

I accept that the BBO Forums are not ruled by our constitution, but I find it sad that an entire thread is deleted as a consequence of one or more insulting or defamatory posts (I don't even know what they are).

Maybe we are just paranoid.

Roland

This is what is violated here:

Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

In other languages you find here: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Sad to say - but in general we in Europe have the impression that those binding rules are violated by americans when they become unbequem - but it is such cases they are really needed.

Uday and BBO, please see to that appropriate measures now will be taken so we can avoid more of those kind of disastrous and unworthy methods.

[mike777]

csdenmark, on Jul 28 2005, 11:36 AM, said:

Walddk, on Jul 28 2005, 04:52 PM, said:

As a citizen in a country that was occupied for five years during World War II, it gives me goose bumps to hear the word "censorship".

Let me quote from the Constitution of the Kingdom of Denmark:

Censur og andre forebyggende forholdsregler kan ingensinde påny indføres.

This translates to:

Censorship and other preventive measures can never be reintroduced.

I accept that the BBO Forums are not ruled by our constitution, but I find it sad that an entire thread is deleted as a consequence of one or more insulting or defamatory posts (I don't even know what they are).

Maybe we are just paranoid.

Roland

This is what is violated here:

Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

In other languages you find here: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Sad to say - but in general we in Europe have the impression that those binding rules are violated by americans when they become unbequem - but it is such cases they are really needed.

Uday and BBO, please see to that appropriate measures now will be taken so we can avoid more of those kind of disastrous and unworthy methods.

This sounds very very wrong.

So Pedophiles have the right to freedom of opinion and expression in the media? Pedophiles have right to seek, receive and impart information through any media and regardless of frontiers?

There must be many many limits and interference of freedom of expression, that is called Censorship in one form or another by any stretch of the definition.

Think about it folks freedom of expression is a very very broad term, that is why it is censored in many ways.

I have been to Denmark, trust me freedom of expression is limited and is censorsed just as it is in every country. Try expressing your freedom on your neighbor's lawn at 3 am in Denmark and they will show you some Censorship.

[luis]

Ok ok one thing is to say we like or don't like the way uday moderates and a very different one is accusing him of violating the human rights!!!

Uday, I prefer you to delete posts if needed and not the whole thread and I'd like if possible to only do that when there's a complaint from somebody. Having said that we must land on earth, we are all in a house, and we should accept that in this house there're some rules that we must follow.

Let's not make something really big of this, I think we all prefer moderators to delete only posts, not threads and we prefer them to do that only in extreme circunstances, however we'll accept the rules and be happy and relaxed posters.

Luis