[Double !]

I have seen many people from France who have S E F written on their profiles but I have not been able to find a good descriptions of the system (I assume this is the standard bidding system in France). I have found "Majeur Cinquieme" online, but I could only find it written en Francais, pas en Anglais. Without having to use a babblefish or some other strange aquatic creature to translate this (I'm not very skilled when it comes to using many aspects of a computer), does anyone know of a site where I can find a reasonable description of S E F in English so I might be able to play with people who only play this system? I speak and understand some French, but I have also forgotten a lot and don't have the knowledge to translate this by myself. ( I can barely speak English coherently!)

Thanks a lot in advance.

DHL

[Fluffy]

It is just a simple 5 card major, thik of it lie a sayc, but that has no stupid dark bids who nobody know if they are forcing or not hehe.

Ok now to business the system goes this way:

5 card major
best minor

1/1 is forcing till 1NT
2/1 is forcing till 2NT unless the bidding is 1M-2m-2x-2M wich is 10-11

after 1x-1M-1NT 2♣ is 10+ relay (step responses), 2X is weak and 2NT is transfer to 3♣.

2♣ opening is 22-23 balanced or semi GF hand, responses are normally natural with 2♦ showing 0-7.

2♦ is Gf hand, same responses as 2♣, but 2♥ is now 0-7.

michael's cuebid and unnusual NT is std.

also standard is toplay landy against opps 1NT (2♣ majors, rest nat).

After a reverse, everything but 2NT 'moderateur' is GF

I'm not fully sure but I think every 2NT response from opener is GF, and could contain 4 card support. (the only possible exception is 1x-1NT-2NT, rest I am sure are GF).

This means that 1M-2x-2M can be 5 cards.

That's more or less how it works.

[Double !]

Thank you very much Gonzalo. I appreciate your response.

[joker_gib]

Also, a great difference with SAYC (as far as I know) :

1M - 1NT = NF !

[Elianna]

joker_gib, on Aug 11 2005, 01:17 AM, said:

Also, a great difference with SAYC (as far as I know) :

1M - 1NT = NF !

1NT over 1M is nonforcing in SAYC. (It's forcing in 2/1, and some people who play Standard American change it to "semi-forcing", but it's still non-forcing in SAYC. I have posted links to a SAYC card/system notes in other places, so I'll spare you here. )

[joker_gib]

Yes, you are right ! Was still asleep !

Tx Elianna

[mgtusi]

Fluffy, on Aug 10 2005, 06:58 PM, said:

It is just a simple 5 card major, thik of it lie a sayc, but that has no stupid dark bids who nobody know if they are forcing or not hehe.

Ok now to business the system goes this way:

5 card major
best minor

1/1 is forcing till 1NT
2/1 is forcing till 2NT unless the bidding is 1M-2m-2x-2M wich is 10-11

after 1x-1M-1NT 2♣ is 10+ relay (step responses), 2X is weak and 2NT is transfer to 3♣.

2♣ opening is 22-23 balanced or semi GF hand, responses are normally natural with 2♦ showing 0-7.

2♦ is Gf hand, same responses as 2♣, but 2♥ is now 0-7.

michael's cuebid and unnusual NT is std.

also standard is toplay landy against opps 1NT (2♣ majors,  rest nat).

After a reverse, everything but 2NT 'moderateur' is GF

I'm not fully sure but I think every 2NT response from opener is GF, and could contain 4 card support. (the only possible exception is 1x-1NT-2NT, rest I am sure are GF).

This means that 1M-2x-2M can be 5 cards.

That's more or less how it works.

One or two precisions :

1m-1M-1NT-2♣ (it is called ROUDI)
- 2♦ : no support for the major, weak (less than good 13)
- 2M : three cards support, weak
- 2M' : three cards support, maxi (good 13 --> 14)
- 2NT : no support for the major, maxi as above
Beware of 1m-1M-1NT-2NT : normally it is a transfer for 3♣, but for many players, it is natural (11-12)


No, 2NT rebid by opener is not always GF and always deny four card support in the responder suit.

1x-1y-2NT shows 18-20 and denies support for y (if y=M)
1♦-2♣-2NT shows 13-15, responder could pass
(exception ; 2/1 is auto-forcing).

Good luck (I hate SEF lol).

[Fluffy]

mgtusi, on Aug 11 2005, 09:53 AM, said:

1x-1y-2NT shows 18-20 and denies support for y (if y=M)
1♦-2♣-2NT shows 13-15, responder could pass
(exception ; 2/1 is auto-forcing).

mmm I think this is wrong, but I cannot be sure.

I've played for many years that 1♦-2♣-2NT is 14-15 or 17+ (when playing 16-18 NT), ,and 1♦-2♣-2♦ is nat or 12-13 balanced. Maybe this is out of the date, or never became standard.

for the 1x-1y-2NT thing I really think it is forcing, but I cannot be sure either.

[mgtusi]

Fluffy, on Aug 11 2005, 05:55 AM, said:

mmm I think this is wrong, but I cannot be sure.

I've played for many years that 1♦-2♣-2NT is 14-15 or 17+ (when playing 16-18 NT), ,and 1♦-2♣-2♦ is nat or 12-13 balanced. Maybe this is out of the date, or never became standard.

for the 1x-1y-2NT thing I really think it is forcing, but I cannot be sure either.

1) 1♦-2♣- ?

No real standard, but two approachs :
2♦ to describe a minimum hand (11-13) and 2NT guarantee 14.

The point is what to do with a weakish hand over a 2♣ response.

BUT classically, the 2NT rebid shows a balanced hand not too good to be open one NT, that is the 12-14 range (almost everybody now in France is playing 1NT 15-17) and this rebid is non forcing (in practice, you pass only with a bad flat 11-count 5332).

It is a matter of partnership agreement.
For my part, I play after 1♦-2♣
-2♦ = 11-13, 5+♦
-2NT = 11-13
-2M = 11-14, local force , sole rebid forcing
-3♣ = 11-14, 4+♣
-3NT = 14-17, to play


2) 1x-1y-2NT

No problem with this sequence : it is absolutely non forcing and you deny a 4-card support for y major. Just 18-20 balanced, so responder pass with a bad five-count.
Big hands with support would be rebid with a direct raise (3 or 4), a reverse, or a splinter or 3NT.
For this latter rebid, two schools : either a big 5422 or a flat 4333/4432 (Bessis and Delmouly say 3NT = balanced, Levy says 3NT = 5422).
As you like it. lol


Regards

[whereagles]

In SEF:

1♦ 2♣
2♦ = 11-15, may have 4 card maj or club support

1♦ 2♣
3♣ = game forcing, around 15-20

1♦ 2♣
2NT = 13-14 (with a balanced 12 or bad 13, open 1 CLUB)

1♦ 2♣
2♦ 3♦ = game forcing

1♦ 3♣ = 5 clubs + 4 diams, invitational