[42]

Hi!
This is relating to topic http://forums.bridge...?showtopic=9532, where RHO started the bidding with 1♦ and one holds
♠ AKxx
♥ ---
♦ KQTxxx
♣ Txx.

It was recommended to bid initially 1♠. I always thought that the ♠-suit must include 1 more honour (or perhaps 109) to do so. I would be afraid that the 3. hand also has ♠s and controls my ♦s The 1♦ opening and a glance on my hand make me think that the LHO and my p have the majors, but who has which? I would rely on my p and pass first, but I also see that bidding 1♠ works very well here.

My questions are:
1. What are the arguments for the initial 1♠?
2. When in general do you overcall a 4card suit?

Thanks
Caren

[Elianna]

42, on Aug 17 2005, 12:52 AM, said:

2. When in general do you overcall a 4card suit?

When you're a pro playing with a client, and NEED to tell them what to lead, or to play the major suit contract your way.

Also, when you're Marshall Miles (anytime ).

[zasanya]

1.Arguments for bidding 1 ♠ (a)You have a biddable hand but cannot bid your longest suit (b ) A take out double is wrong action because after most likely response in ♥ you dont have a rebid.
2.Requirements for overcalling on a 4 card suit. (a) The overcall is at 1 level.(b)With normal breaks not more than 2 trump tricks will be lost.
ABOVE ALL Partner knows and agrees with these points

[the hog]

The fact that you are long in Ds suggests pd is short and therefore figures to have length in S. It helps if the D cards are sharp eg AQ is a great holding. KQ is ok, but not as good, QJ is poor.

[Fluffy]

Overcalling a 4c suit you either are pretty sure that the lead from partner on that suit from any holding will be good, or you have enough extra strenght to think the lead won't be on your side.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the 4 card suit should satisfy the suit quality test,
i.e. number of honors + length >= 7, count the J or
10 as honour, if a higher ranking honor exist

=> AKxx is to weak the same holds true for AK9x,
but AKTx , would be ok.

Regarding Marshall Miles:

Read his bood "Competive bidding in the 21st century",
the best book I know, which deals with competive bidding.

He is famous for overcalling 4 card suits, but he is not
alone, in his book he descibes a panel, where several
of the experts said
"If Marshall Miles would be on the panel, I would know,
that I am not alone."

Playing his style, you wont loose the diamond suit, because
you can always bid them later, showing longer diamonds, partner
has to pass with equal length in the minor and mayor.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Gerben42]

Caren with me you can bid 1♠. With some others, maybe not

Insiders tip: Merle is very confused when you do this with her at the table.

Anyway, ideally you want 3 honors but I think AKxx is okay in a hand is strong, espcially because it's Spades.

[reisig]

Any initial action bids need to be discussed with partner. What is your opening weak 2 bid range and suit?...what about opening bids? Opening with 3 of a suit - what is typical? Overcalls are no different..in that . we need to discuss how many cards you might have and how good is your hand (lower limits). I probably overcall more four cards suits (at 1 level) than 98% of the people. Stop worrying about being killed for a number, since that won't happen often (remember - we're at the 1 level and LHO doesn't have much info about opener's hand) and partner may easily have a long suit to run to. My suits are always with 2+ honors (I want the lead) ..and I may have a longer suit ..9xxxx AKJx Qx xx after 1♣ ..what? to me 1♥. These overcalls are hugely successful..for leads - for competing - for keeping the opponents out of 3N, etc. The lower the suit the friskier I am ...meaning 1♣ 1♦ can be VERY light but always a suit I want led. The reason for lower craziness is that we have more escape routes. Anyway - this is NOT a short subject..so I'm just stating an opinion here and not trying to fully explain all aspects of it.

[Al_U_Card]

This is quite the "discussable" hand. I personally like the pass first and when they find a fit, bid our (supposed) fit ie S. Pard will then know that you have only 4.

The big disadvantage is, of course, that the opps have exchanged bags of info and the advantage of the 1S overcall in their constructive auction may be lost.

I would only overcall a minor suit 1S with AKJx or AQJx and a typical strong NT overcall with H shortness.

[whereagles]

4-card overcalls are usually ok if you have some lenght in RHO's suit (for the reason the_hog pointed out).

When used properly, they are an excellent way to butt-in-to the bidding.

[Free]

I regularly overcall on 4 cards, but partner is supposed to interpret them as a 5 card. I play a lot in 4-3 fits at 2-level, but that's ok.

When do I overcall on a 4 card? Pfff, depends actually on the entire hand. If you have length in RHO's suit, you'll probably be able to have some ruffs in partner's hand. But I always have a 'decent' suit. Decent depends on vulnerability, position and the mood

[kenberg]

AKxx is adequate when the situation demands that you get in, but here I would not do it, essentially for the reasons Caren suggests. You and RHO have at least 9 and probably 10 diamonds between you, your partner and your LHO have presumably at least 9 hearts. It seems a fair possibility that whoever becomes declarer will come to regret it. If my LHO holds the spades, and partner holds the hearts, which at the moment in question is just as likely as the actual holding, coming into the auction could be disastrous. In the hands as they actually are, passing should have worked out fine since after 1D-P-1H it seem to me that a guy with a 6 card spade suit might consider bidding it. His hand is not strong, but 6 card spade suits usually should be mentioned.

One reason for coming in with 1S here is that if you pass then a later double may be interpreted in different ways by different people. That's the case on the thread you got this from. Still, I wouldn't do it. I would pass, and if it went 1D-1H-2C I would pass again. If in the post-mortem partner wants to tell me I should have bid my 4 card suit so he could raise with his 6 card suit I will listen politely.

[awm]

I don't think I'd overcall 1♠ with the hand given. The argument that my diamond length makes partner more likely to have spades is not really true. In effect there are 35 cards in the deck I can't see (placing four diamonds in RHO's hand) and 9 of them are spades. This would also be true if my hand was 4333 with four spades, so the only real difference is the knowledge that RHO can't have FIVE spades. I don't think this changes the odds all that much.

The real reason NOT to overcall is concern about how the auction will continue. Where are the hearts? Seeing as I have zero hearts, either the opponents have a heart fit or partner has a lot of hearts. If I bid 1♠, most likely LHO will make a negative double, or perhaps pass or bid 1NT. Now I "get" to hear about partner's hearts. What am I going to do with an auction like:

1♦ - 1♠ - Pass/X - 2♥; Pass/X... back to me?

Do I now rebid my four card spade suit? Or should I bid 3♦, which partner might take as a cuebid and surely will not take for showing SIX diamonds and only four spades.

On the other hand, if I pass the most likely auction is something like:

1♦ - Pass - 1♥ - Pass; 1NT/2♥/3♥. Now I can comfortably double (correcting clubs to diamonds if need be) and be sure that partner will not go overboard bidding those silly hearts.

[pclayton]

I'll overcall on a 4 bagger fairly often. Here's what I like to see:

1 ) Usually close to or better than an opening hand, and inferentially some length in RHO's suit. Having length in RHO's suit helps the play of the hand - you can ruff these pips in dummy without fear of an overruff.

2 ) Decent suit - although the stronger the hand, the more lax this requirement rates to be. You should not be embarassed if pard leads the suit from Kx.

3) NEVER at the 2 level over a 1 level opening. However, I have overcalled over a preempt with a 4 card suit and no better call.

Overcalling on a 4 card suit in my opinion is a lesser lie than making an off shape take out double.

[whereagles]

Well, to overcall 1♦-1♠ or not with

AKxx
--
KQTxxx
Txx

is, I think, a matter of personal preference. And of what you had for dinner too.. lol

[pigpenz]

I would always overcall 1♠ on this hand, when long in their suit partner rates to have length in your suit. You just have to hope that partner doesnt go crazy with 3 card support, and in alot of cases partner may have four small and the opps may be cold for 3NT buy you have frozen them out of it.