[AL78]

Partner and I had a brief chat about this one and were none the wiser as to how we could find game:

Matchpoints, playing Benj Acol, weak NT.

---

I made 12 tricks which was a good score but I feel we should have found a game somehow. My thinking was that although I have a very shapely hand, the double on my left likely means spade values are sat over my KQ and partner's response in my void hints that the hands might not be fitting very well, hence I was reluctant to bid on after 3♦.

[mike777]

West hid their support with pass over 2D

Then when you show a big hand West has a huge double fit, yet ....West continued to hide their huge fits

[mikeh]

I haven't played any form of acol in almost 50 years but I don't think that matters because I think this sequence has the same meaning in SA or 2/1. West knows a few things at his second turn: the opps have at least 8 spades and EW probably have at least 9 diamonds. The opps are likely to balance and its easy to see how both sides can take 9 tricks in their best fit, with the opps competing to 3S if partner has only 2 of them. And 2D didn't, afaik, deny a decent hand. Game would seem remote but surely not impossible. Consider AJx xx KJxxxx Ax 9 aces if diamonds come home and chanced even if they don't. And East could definitely have more...just make his diamonds KQxxxx. So west needs to bid 3D. Both to stop the opps from balancing...nobody balances over 3D when neither could bid earlier...and to reach a reasonable game contract.

I'm not crazy about the 2D bid. I see the attraction and maybe I am resulting but why not 2C?

[bluenikki]

mikeh, on 2026-November-05, 13:58, said:

I'm not crazy about the 2D bid. I see the attraction and maybe I am resulting but why not 2C?

Yes. No doubt I'm still poisoned by 20 years of Kaplan-Sheinwold, but when a good hand simply repeats the minor opened, it gives me the creeps.

[apollo1201]

We could say West was very lazy in the bidding, as E you did all you could to wake him up.

The 2D rebid promised 6 cards and can still be a good-ish hand (14-16 if you jump to 3D with 16+ and a good suit). so the 10 HCP is a perfect rise to 3D. Not sure how to continue from there, esp with a frightening H void, and a TOX behind you. Maybe 4C as a game try (canton be a control in view of a slam), duly accepted. Or a pedestrian 3NT betting that they will not shoot H. Not obvious at MP, though.

Here, given another chance, W only puts you to your 1st suit like they had 6HCP and a small doubleton. Well, partner is 64, has volunteered virtually alone to the 3 level and I have almost all my points in his suits and a double fit. We can almost count 11 tricks facing KQ to 6, A to 4 (Q finesse is working) and some major goodies. If the suits are weaker there could be an extra major trick to justify the bidding.

[steve2005]

West has 10 HCPs.
Why not redouble and set up a force to 2NT?
or is that not part of ACOL

[mw64ahw]

I can see my Acol partner going 3♣ to show this type of hand

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

West should make a 3D bid, as I was playing Acol, it was called "Courtesy raise",
https://bridgewinner...s-2-botayk7df3/

I did not look to closely at the thread.

Usually it does not matter, but once in a blue moon, it does.
And sometimes, it prevents them from entering the auction, exchanging unpleasant
information.

East could have shown 5+4+ instead of the 6+, which would be my choise,
now and than (I have not played Acol for 20y, but I quite often play a 5 card system
in the same spirit), 2D would be ok with a 7 carder.

After West passes, the ship has sailed.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

steve2005, on 2026-November-05, 15:27, said:

West has 10 HCPs.
Why not redouble and set up a force to 2NT?
or is that not part of ACOL

Do you really want to suggest defending against spade?
Bid your hand. But XX is part of Acol.

Besides nobody has an idea, how far XX really forces.

[paulg]

For West, the modern style is to bid your hand rather than redouble so I think 1♥ is fine. Indeed those enamored with transfers now use redouble as a transfer to hearts showing 4+.
In modern Acol, none of my friends would rebid 2♦ as they think that 2♣, keeping the auction alive, is the natural continuation with a good 6-4. Whereas the 2♦ rebid is used when holding a minimum weak 6-4.

Now West has a simple 3♦ and game should be reached.

In traditional Acol, where fourth suit forcing was not game forcing, then West would have tried 2♠. But life is too short these days and almost everyone plays F2F as game forcing.

[AL78]

To be honest, I have never been sure with a 6-4 shape whether to bid the second suit second time round or repeat the first suit, I can't show both the extra length and the second suit. I figured that since the diamonds were headed by two top honors, the clubs aren't very good and LHO has probably got club length given the TOX, I will show the 6 carder, but in future, if the consensus is to show both suits on the second bid with 6-4, I will do that from now on.

[mike777]

Fwiw

Look at your 6-4 minor suited hand.
If minimum hand I would rebid the 6 card suit.
If non minimum rebid the four card suit.

In your example your hand is clearly non minimum

Notice how this wakes up partner when you rebid a new suit.

[AL78]

mike777, on 2026-November-06, 10:09, said:

Fwiw

Look at your 6-4 minor suited hand.
If minimum hand I would rebid the 6 card suit.
If non minimum rebid the four card suit.

In your example your hand is clearly non minimum

Notice how this wakes up partner when you rebid a new suit.

I don't play that rebidding a suit necessarily shows a minimum, in fact, bidding a new suit could be done on a minimum as well or it could be 14-15 HCP in both cases.

[mike777]

AL78, on 2026-November-06, 11:22, said:

I don't play that rebidding a suit necessarily shows a minimum, in fact, bidding a new suit could be done on a minimum as well or it could be 14-15 HCP in both cases.

yes that is all true and so what in regards to my point?

two things can be true. smile

1d then 2d tends to often just show a minimum
1d then 2c tends to very often show a nonminimum AND WAKE UP pard

Same can be used with a major and minor combination

1h-1s
2h or 2minor

Please remember 6-4 hands very often lean towards nonminimum anyway....so.....

[bluenikki]

AL78, on 2026-November-06, 11:22, said:

I don't play that rebidding a suit necessarily shows a minimum

Is that playable? Doesn't it force you to the three level with misfitting 12 facing 8?

[P_Marlowe]

AL78, on 2026-November-06, 09:27, said:

To be honest, I have never been sure with a 6-4 shape whether to bid the second suit second time round or repeat the first suit, I can't show both the extra length and the second suit. I figured that since the diamonds were headed by two top honors, the clubs aren't very good and LHO has probably got club length given the TOX, I will show the 6 carder, but in future, if the consensus is to show both suits on the second bid with 6-4, I will do that from now on.

The main thing is, being consistent.
As it is, 2D showed 6+, had your p responded 1S, this would not have been the case.
The question is, do you want to change openers 2nd bid dependent on responders bid.
I would think, that most players always show the 2nd suit, regardless of responders
suit.

[TMorris]

I am with those who say rebid 2 ♣. That way you show nine cards not five so it easier for partner to make a decision. Partner has a raise to 3 ♦ or 3♣ depending on your rebid. If partner can't do that you can't get to game.

[jillybean]

last to comment,
If the game is all about shape, isn't 2♣ more descriptive, suggesting more shape?
A 2-2-5-4 shape is a 1NT rebid, and of course, a 2-2-5-4 with 15–17 HCP opens 1NT.

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2026-November-06, 15:13, said:

last to comment,
If the game is all about shape, isn't 2♣ more descriptive, suggesting more shape?
A 2-2-5-4 shape is a 1NT rebid, and of course, a 2-2-5-4 with 15–17 HCP opens 1NT.

I think for many those hands are more difficult than that, otoh many will agree with you when playing standard 2/1.

I grant an 11-17
1D-1M
2C-? Can be a difficult start.


Strangely enough an unbalanced D style 2/1. You can rebid 1NT F1 with both and then XYZ kicks in over 1NT, opener is assumed to have a minimum opening. Btw it would also deny three card support in the bid major. You still face the 11-17 issue if 5-4.

I guess if you prefer you could still open the strong NT. But unless my short suits had something I would not.