[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2026-October-29, 05:24, said:

I've excluded ♦ and minor orientated hands from my 2♣ and included 4441s.
How would I continue? Possibly
Pass 4441
X penalty
3♦ 6M
3M 5M
3N to play

Not playing waiting 2♦

pass 22-23 bal or primary clubs
X t/o
suits GF

[pescetom]

In the meantime, Jillybean is here:

---

I really dislike 4♣. Is East expected to sign off in 4♥ if lacking spades control?

[WasWinM]

steve2005, on 2026-October-28, 22:20, said:

I dont think it's easier with Precision.
You undoubtably are going to get a 1♦ response 0-7 from partner.
Then maybe you get a 3♣ bid by opps
Even if opponent passes you have the same problem you started with
do you bid 1♥ (which for me is forcing with 4+) of do you bid 2♥
Unless partner has a heart fit it will be messy
and you still might have slam with as little as KQ♠ and heart support

The issue of 1C forcing isn't continuations; the purpose is to prevent this auction: 1H p p p.

[WasWinM]

pescetom, on 2026-October-29, 06:45, said:

In the meantime, Jillybean is here:

---

I really dislike 4♣. Is East expected to sign off in 4♥ if lacking spades control?

And what do you do if partner bids 4D? There's never going to be a way to find out or let partner know that Q of spades is gold and Q of clubs is doo-doo.

[pescetom]

This thread is getting a bit scrappy, so probably time to present both hands:

---

Let the discussion recommence.

[jillybean]

4♥,
It's shame I (West) don't have a specific Queen ask

correted

[bluenikki]

jillybean, on 2026-October-29, 17:46, said:

4♥,
It's shame I don't have a specific Queen ask

Should you use it if you had it? It can't enter your mind that opener might be _that_ strong.

[jillybean]

bluenikki, on 2026-October-29, 18:31, said:

Should you use it if you had it? It can't enter your mind that opener might be _that_ strong.

I mean "me" as West need a specific Q ask.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-October-29, 18:34, said:

I mean "me" as West need a specific Q ask.

Had you bid 3♠ you would have learned about the spades Q (or a spades doubleton and probable clubs Q) during italian style control bidding.

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2026-October-30, 02:19, said:

Had you bid 3♠ you would have learned about the spades Q (or a spades doubleton and probable clubs Q) during italian style control bidding.

Please start a thread on Italian cue bidding. I claim to play “Italian style” but can’t ask for Q outside of the trump suit.

[Cyberyeti]

Short of some really complicated precision sequence, you are not going to fing out what you need to know, the key card that makes slam good is ♦J but a black Q is also needed.

From what I can find out, I don't think I'm in this and I don't want to be in it. I will also play it from the wrong hand.

[jillybean]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-October-30, 04:11, said:

From what I can find out, I don't think I'm in this and I don't want to be in it. I will also play it from the wrong hand.

It sounds like you are signing off.

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2026-October-30, 05:47, said:

It sounds like you are signing off.

My auction starts 2♣-P-2♦-3♣-X(GF)-P-3♥ so wrongsides it and also partner has denied any 9 or a good 8 and will go on to deny ♠K or ♦A while showing ♣K before we get to 4♥.

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-October-30, 04:11, said:

Short of some really complicated precision sequence, you are not going to find out what you need to know, the key card that makes slam good is ♦J but a black Q is also needed.

From what I can find out, I don't think I'm in this and I don't want to be in it. I will also play it from the wrong hand.

Most of us would be in West, however.
And East would not take the chance of showing ♠Q when ♣K is already shown and they have no keycard unless they had something else up their sleeve, such as ♦J.
Or if spades behave, even a doubleton would suffice.
But yes, it's a bit thin at MP.

Staying out of it will earn you 41% at national level this time. Exactly a quarter of tables bid and made the slam.

[Cyberyeti]

Unopposed we get there having shown the ♠Q via a kokish auction

2♣-2♦(neg)
2♥-2♠
3♦-3♥(better than 4)
3♠-4♣(club control, no spade control)
4♦-4N(spade Q, absolute max 2♦)
6♥ partner has ♣K, ♠Q and more, so almost certainly ♣Q or 2 or 3 jacks. At worst it will be on the spade finesse and may well be cold.