[cencio]

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[P_Marlowe]

1NT

The hand is approx. bal, it is in the 15-18 range.

[pescetom]

1NT

[apollo1201]

Not ideal or text book, but other options are worse, so 1NT

[mw64ahw]

You can play Power Doubles and NT takeouts rather than the standard approach and that would mean a double here.

[Kaitlyn S]

mw64ahw, on 2026-September-21, 08:37, said:

You can play Power Doubles and NT takeouts rather than the standard approach and that would mean a double here.

Isn't this the beginners' forum?
I bid 1NT. Not perfect but I can stand most of the followup auctions.

[jillybean]

1nt is fine showing this balanced 16 count.

Modern bidding has progressed from "It is forbidden to open 1NT with two doubletons."
If you play ACBL games, the only rule is that if you open 1NT with a singleton, it must be an A, K, or Q.

[mw64ahw]

Kaitlyn S, on 2026-September-21, 15:07, said:

Isn't this the beginners' forum?

Yes - it's where you begin to learn about other options

[akwoo]

There are reasons to have reservations about bidding 1N, but, this being the beginner's forum, you should close your eyes and just do it.

[WasWinM]

A history lesson: in the older days of 4-card majors and Charles Goren, this hand would have been opened 1D and the rebid would be 2C, as in those days ease of rebid took precedence. Responder with a weakish hand had to guess which minor would play best. A 4-2 fit was a real possibility so you always took preference to the 3-card.

[WasWinM]

Kaitlyn S, on 2026-September-21, 15:07, said:

Isn't this the beginners' forum?
I bid 1NT. Not perfect but I can stand most of the followup auctions.

I have been confused here many times myself. True beginners need to see that bridge first and foremost can be fun. Those who catch the bug will look for ways and forum threads more sophisticated.
Maybe what is needed is a neophyte thread, or call it the Goren Thread, as in his heyday Charles had the entire world playing bridge by calling for simple methods.

[pescetom]

WasWinM, on 2026-September-22, 11:33, said:

I have been confused here many times myself. True beginners need to see that bridge first and foremost can be fun. Those who catch the bug will look for ways and forum threads more sophisticated.
Maybe what is needed is a neophyte thread, or call it the Goren Thread, as in his heyday Charles had the entire world playing bridge by calling for simple methods.

Mah.
I don't see anything simple in Goren bridge, unless you were steeped in the same methods and assumptions to begin with. See your own history lesson.
Even 2/1 is slightly easier to learn.
You can describe a basic but playable strong club canapé system in a few pages if you want something real simple for neophytes.

[bluenikki]

pescetom, on 2026-September-22, 13:55, said:

Mah.
I don't see anything simple in Goren bridge, unless you were steeped in the same methods and assumptions to begin with. See your own history lesson.
Even 2/1 is slightly easier to learn.

Yes.

But easier to learn and easier to play are not the same thing.

[johnu]

mw64ahw, on 2026-September-21, 08:37, said:

You can play Power Doubles and NT takeouts rather than the standard approach and that would mean a double here.

Well sure, there are no rules saying that players can't play any convention or treatment that they want to play. However, power doubles work best with a lot of "black magic"¹, and the best known proponents of off-shape takeout doubles, the Italian Blue Team, have very credible evidence against them that they used a lot of black magic to prevent bad results. An obvious question is how do you find a fit after a power double, especially when the opening side competes to higher levels. And that's where black magic is indispensable.

As far as using 1NT overcalls as takeout instead of a natural strong NT, expert opinion has almost completely rejected the use of 1NT (by an unpassed hand) as takeout. An obvious question is how does the auction go when you have a natural 1NT overcall, but have to make a power double. The answer is nothing is as easy as the auction where a natural 1NT was made.

¹ Black magic - aka cheating

[mw64ahw]

johnu, on 2026-September-22, 18:08, said:

Well sure, there are no rules saying that players can't play any convention or treatment that they want to play. However, power doubles work best with a lot of "black magic"¹, and the best known proponents of off-shape takeout doubles, the Italian Blue Team, have very credible evidence against them that they used a lot of black magic to prevent bad results. An obvious question is how do you find a fit after a power double, especially when the opening side competes to higher levels. And that's where black magic is indispensable.

As far as using 1NT overcalls as takeout instead of a natural strong NT, expert opinion has almost completely rejected the use of 1NT (by an unpassed hand) as takeout. An obvious question is how does the auction go when you have a natural 1NT overcall, but have to make a power double. The answer is nothing is as easy as the auction where a natural 1NT was made.

¹ Black magic - aka cheating

At the base level my continuations after a PD are similar to those after a 1N opener/overcall, but there is also the ability to stop in 2m. Opponents competing to a higher level is less likely than after a normal takeout so for me this is a plus for the PDs.

NT takeouts are considered to be a weak point in the overcall structure, but I find that shutting opponents out of the 1-level can cause problems, at least at a non-expert level. If you play them as per a normal takeout strength there is little downside versus a regular takeout and playing in that 1N contract can be a bonus. If using them with a wider range of strength then I find constructive auctions a bit harder, but missing game is unlikely.

Having an escape sequence is a must if 1N gets doubled, but this doesn't seem to happen with too much frequency.

I play both approaches, but with different partners and empirically my experience shows that overall the non-standard approach produces better results.

[mycroft]

For Beginners - don't play Power Doubles or NT for takeout(1). Play standard; it basically works; and all the people you play with, and all the people you would like to play with to get better (or to move up to the next clique) can play it. It leaves your opportunities open, and it's "good enough" - especially it's "good enough" for players who can still improve significantly by working on basic declarer play, signalling, and negative inferences(2).

1NT is a systemic bid. It's also "necessary" (JMeckstroth, against Polish/Raptor NT overcalls). There are obviously flaws with this hand (you're going to love playing 2M, and opener is likely to have 4 trumps; if opener actually *has* a club suit, your stopper isn't great) but your other alternative is pass, and it's hard to do so with 16. Make it and deal with it, and partner will have a good feeling of what you have when you do it - and when you choose not to do it.

End of Beginner Discussion. Rest in spoiler, but only because I want the footnotes to be visible to B/I.

Spoiler

I play Power Doubles and NT for takeout in my regular partnership and have for over a decade, including winning (a small, but with several pros) regional 2-session pairs.

Power Doubles suck.

I mean, they're awful. They have all the amorphousness of a Precision 1♣ (and so are susceptible to preemption and interference, and needing two at least rounds to qualify both hands) with the added benefit of the fact that the opponents have already got their first shot at finding their fit for the partscore battle.

Yes, I love when partner doubles - it's going to be a fun auction and a fun hand, and sometimes we'll be able to "play the hand in the auction" to get to games the room isn't. But I also know it's going to be one of the hardest auctions this session, and the chance we'll end up either in the wrong place or too high is very high, and we lose in both cases (we also lose when we're in the right place, and the "normal" auction scores better because of some diabolical card layout). Frankly, whether we survive or not is effectively a coin toss.

Yes, the extra strength (and the fact that it won't be a "normal" takeout double) means that the system can be designed to survive better than the old "13+any (or takeout) doubles". Yes, assuming it's a strong NT (with or without stoppers) works well - when partner has that; and usually it's okay when they don't. But that only makes it better, not in fact good.

So why play it? For the same reason people play Precision - to get those hands out of our other auctions. 1NT for takeout is aggressive, powerful (especially over 1m openers), and just by its nature hard to play against. Knowing that partner (unless they have extreme shortness in opener's suit) is limited when they overcall makes it a lot easier to make decisions after, and makes it a lot safer for overcaller to "bid strongly" later (again, in the same vein as a Precision 1♠ then 3♣). And on and on. But (again, like a Precision 1♣) not because it's a good bid, just a survivable one.

But bridge players have this almost insatiable desire to make the cool "show strength" bid. And this one doesn't even have the advantage that "slam could be on, and if it is, it's likely we'll have a free auction". As always, I try to discourage that level of "cool".

(1) or Precision or Polish Club or Keri or any of the other systems or conventions out there that aren't default in your area. Even though they all are, or can be, effective alternatives. Widening your potential pool of partners and mentors will *always* be more effective at your level.
(2) One that came up last weekend: 1♦-1♠; 1NT-2♥; 3♥-p down 1. "I thought new suit by responder was forcing". "Do we play New Minor Forcing?" "Yes." "Did I NMF?" "No." "Then is it forcing?" (and then a small discussion as to why "when partner limits their hand, that allows some of the patterns to change.") I beleive that "understanding - and using - negative inferences" is a key sign of end-of-beginnerhood. It's not easy (even if, for most of us here, it's instinctive now).

[bluenikki]

WasWinM, on 2026-September-22, 11:29, said:

so you always took preference to the 3-card.

I believe I would remember that if it was true.

In fact, Goren's disciples didn't much worry about that. Remember, for example, that opener sometimes had to rebid a 4-card suit because "it's better to lie about a deuce than about a king."