[jillybean]

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Bid this with me. I'll force you to make a Jacoby 2nt raise, we can discuss the spade suit later.

[apollo1201]

 jillybean, on 2026-September-03, 09:56, said:

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Bid this with me. I'll force you to make a Jacoby 2nt raise, we can discuss the spade suit later.

I will not be very useful as I do not masterize the follow ups. I am puzzled by showing shortage, nothing more, and then responder has to guess wether to go for slam or not facing an opener that can have anything from 11 to 19. Responder also can start at 12-13.

I am also unsure whether hiding such an importance source of tricks was wise.

Anyway, if 4D just means a control and is not a strong commitment to go higher should partner control clubs, it is probably a good bid. If 4D virtually launches BW when partner controls clubs, it coup be an overbid.

But with 9 trumps at least and a suit that will often generate 4 discards after being ruffed, we could make. 7 minor from partner, one trick lost to opps (a D for instance), 1 cashing (the CA for instance), 1 D trumped in my hand (we might need to pull 3 rounds) and 4 discarded.

x
KQxxx
xxx
Axxx

makes even on a C lead (CA, SA, S ruff, 3 rounds of trumps ending in dummy, then 3 clubs and 1 D discarded) and is not an opening. Barring bad breaks of course.

So we shouldnt close the bidding.

Of course partner can have different hands with wasted D honors and weaker trumps.

Maybe bidding our S then splintering in D would take the message across?

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-September-03, 09:56, said:

Bid this with me. I'll force you to make a Jacoby 2nt raise, we can discuss the spade suit later.

I am more lunar influenced that most, but unless you alert and (really) explain 2NT I am at a loss

In my own agreements it will not surprise you that I have an automatic 2♣ response which forces game and does not guarantee clubs or deny hearts fit or both majors.

[mike777]

Very confusing options
J2NT for me
Hard to stop short of 6 but over 2NT tell me minimum (3C) or non minimum with shortness(3D)..or other..

If you have a minimum with short spades, probably end up in 6H after RKC

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If only permitted one bid then 6H

[jillybean]

Old fashioned responses to Jacoby 2nt - 3♠ says I am short in spades, silent as to strength

[akwoo]

I'm bidding 4♦, first or second round control. We're odds on for slam opposite x KQxxx xxxx AKxx - a good minimum, but a minimum. Your hand is very good - you're odds on for 5 spade tricks despite partner's spade shortness.

I've never played serious/non-serious, so I don't have a good sense of whether this is worth a serious 4♦ rather than non-serious 3N - it might be a partnership discussion.

[mikeh]

You couldn’t pay me…ok, if you paid me a lot then you could pay me…to bid 2N. Wtf is the hurry to take control, especially if playing old fashioned J2N. Here I am at the 3 level with no idea whether we can make a grand, a small or just a game in hearts. Nice methods.*

Anyway, maybe I’m playing pro with a client unfamiliar with modern bidding methods. I’ll bid 3N. I assume partner isn’t so hopeless as to think I want to play 3N. Now I’ll find out whether partner has a club control, over which I should probably bid keycard since almost certainly partner won’t help me out over 4D by me. May as well continue the grabbing of control of this auction (aka masterminding) tyat I began with my fatuous 2N.

* if we don’t play 2 way new minor I could (barely) accept 2N since after 1H 1S 1N we may have issues.

[a_user]

Assuming normal club level players, why not 4♦ splinter 1st.
Doesn't Jacoby 2NT suggest a balanced hand with 4 ♥?

[jillybean]

Partner does show a club control and shows 2, no Q when asked for key cards

[mike777]

 a_user, on 2026-September-03, 22:31, said:

Assuming normal club level players, why not 4♦ splinter 1st.
Doesn't Jacoby 2NT suggest a balanced hand with 4 ♥?

No and no

Splinters are much weaker, minimum gf type hands, this hand is much too strong

J2NT does not promise or suggest a balanced hand..

[Cyberyeti]

This is why I play 2♠ SJS, we get the same info in our auction 1♥-2♠-2N (less than stiff Q♠) 4 bids lower

2N is horrible with the likely 3♠ response, over our 2N we bid length, so is not as bad

[jillybean]

2S SJS would be ideal, but we can't provide all treatments on our CC, and some are simply not available to certain partnerships.
We've got to do the best we can with what we have.

What is your bid after 2N (less than stiff Q♠) and what is your J2nt system.

[pescetom]

 Cyberyeti, on 2026-September-04, 01:24, said:

This is why I play 2♠ SJS, we get the same info in our auction 1♥-2♠-2N (less than stiff Q♠) 4 bids lower

2N is horrible with the likely 3♠ response, over our 2N we bid length, so is not as bad

2S SJS is fashionable among the top players in Turin too (for some depends on vulnerability).

Certainly a heck of a lot better than this 2N.

[pescetom]

 apollo1201, on 2026-September-03, 10:16, said:

Maybe bidding our S then splintering in D would take the message across?

I am struggling to envision how Opener will know you are splinter fitting hearts. Could you give the auction after 1H-1S; 1N (which for many of us is XYZ land) and 1H-1S;2C or D?

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2026-September-04, 06:44, said:

2S SJS would be ideal, but we can't provide all treatments on our CC, and some are simply not available to certain partnerships.
We've got to do the best we can with what we have.

What is your bid after 2N (less than stiff Q♠) and what is your J2nt system.

We don't play J2N, we play it inv+, we tend to bid out shape

1♥-2♠ (5 spades to at least 3 of the top 5, one of the top 2, 4 hearts to one of the top 3, GF or huge single suited)
2N-3♥ no high card cue in the side suits, fit type not single suited

[WasWinM]

mike777, on 2026-September-03, 22:56, said:

No and no

Splinters are much weaker, minimum gf type hands, this hand is much too strong

J2NT does not promise or suggest a balanced hand..

This may be your understanding but I don't think it is universal. Notwithstanding, IMO the best bid with this hand is Soloway Jump Shift, 2S showing either a single suiter and strong or what we have here, a good suit and support and slam interest. (IMO, the playing strength makes up for its understrength in HCPs.)

PS: As for the OG, I don't think it is possible to recover after such a bad start.

[akwoo]

mikeh, on 2026-September-03, 21:40, said:

* if we don’t play 2 way new minor I could (barely) accept 2N since after 1H 1S 1N we may have issues.

I'm not so fond of how it would go after 1H-1S-2D either. You can bid 3C fourth suit forcing, but now partner has no idea if you're looking for a 3rd spade or game forcing with hearts and some slam interest or both (or something else - but those are easier to handle), and you don't have much room to clarify. In particular, there's going to be no way you can tell partner you have both.

I actually quite like 1H-2S (or 1H-2N if you're playing 1H-2S as a game forcing raise) as an inv+ fit jump, precisely to avoid this problem.

[apollo1201]

 pescetom, on 2026-September-04, 08:36, said:

I am struggling to envision how Opener will know you are splinter fitting hearts. Could you give the auction after 1H-1S; 1N (which for many of us is XYZ land) and 1H-1S;2C or D?

Yeah, works only over 1NT rebid. Promises a very promising suit, a big fit and enough to GF, and potentially a bit more than a direct splinter that could be a bit weaker (and obviously no mentionable side suit). I am starting to think that the hand is even too powerful for that, the 64 distribution with the near solid suit can reach slam with minimal values opposite (provided they are the right ones).

Fo the other rebids (but also for 3H rebid), you need to jump to 3H, which is commonly played as slam inv where I live. If you do not have a GF hand and are fitted for H, you do not mention a side suit (even S) and give the appropriate fit immediately (inv+ 3, inv 4 and GF 4).

[pescetom]

apollo1201, on 2026-September-04, 14:41, said:

Yeah, works only over 1NT rebid. Promises a very promising suit, a big fit and enough to GF, and potentially a bit more than a direct splinter that could be a bit weaker (and obviously no mentionable side suit). I am starting to think that the hand is even too powerful for that, the 64 distribution with the near solid suit can reach slam with minimal values opposite (provided they are the right ones).

Fo the other rebids (but also for 3H rebid), you need to jump to 3H, which is commonly played as slam inv where I live. If you do not have a GF hand and are fitted for H, you do not mention a side suit (even S) and give the appropriate fit immediately (inv+ 3, inv 4 and GF 4).

Ok thanks. So it goes 1H-1S;1N-4♦ if we get the lucky 1N rebid. I guess that doesn't conflict with XYZ and has to mean something, so why not.
The jump 1H-1S;1N-3H in our XYZ is at least a mild slam invite, but more concretely it imposes trumps and invites control-bid.
I certainly agree with not mentioning spades with a non GF fit; my preference is to not mention even with a GF fit, 1H-1S auctions can easily eat up space for a limited advantage at best. Although I do like the idea of the SJS 1H-2S;3m-3H, which is a 'have your cake and eat it' situation similar to 1S-2H;3m-3S, even if it means giving up a weak jump that is neat at MP.

[jillybean]

Here is our auction

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=7
I took the well-trodden (J2nt) path rather than exploring the unknown here. After the hand, our opponents (whose teammates missed the slam) commented on missing a key card and the queen. I still wonder if it was in jest.

I discussed this with my partner today, mentioning that I wasn't thrilled with my Jacoby bid. She was adamant that I start J2nt and not hide the four-card support, so what am I worrying about? I'm not playing with MikeH!

I have only just looked at the auction at the OT:

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