[AL78]

I am having a think about system tweaks/agreements with a regular partner and am looking at the situation where opener has two non-touching four card suits and a balanced hand too strong to open a 12-14NT. Do people tend to open the minor and bid NT on the second round, potentially losing a 4-4 fit in the major if responder can't find another bid, or do people open the major and accept that if partner is weak and responds 1NT, they have potentially wrong-sided the contract?

I am thinking of something I played years ago where with 15-19 balanced and C+H or D+S, we opened the minor and if partner responded in the next suit up, we bid the major but that didn't limit the hand and partner was expected to respond as if we had opened the major e.g. 1D - 1H; 1S could be 4-4 in the two suits, balanced 15-19 HCP. If doing this, opening 1S effectively promises a five card suit, the only exception being 4333 shape with four spades, and even then, you could open those with 1C and have 1S openings promise at least five cards, then a 1H opening promises either at least five hearts or four spades. Any thoughts?

[pescetom]

It sounds like you are dangerously close to inventing 5 card majors

More seriously, couldn't you resolve most of this by simply agreeing to play diamonds 4+ and clubs 2+ (clubs 2 only with both majors, open diamonds with both minors) ?

[AL78]

pescetom, on 2026-September-05, 08:10, said:

It sounds like you are dangerously close to inventing 5 card majors

More seriously, couldn't you resolve most of this by simply agreeing to play diamonds 4+ and clubs 2+ (clubs 2 only with both majors, open diamonds with both minors) ?

I could go all the way and play 5CM with prepared club, but would that mean having to change to strong NT as well, or is a 5CM system perfectly fine with weak NT?

[TMorris]

I play 4cM and a weak nt and I open the minor and rebid in nt. It is possible if the minor is very bad and the major very good that i might open the major but that almost never happens. I used to open the major but was persuaded to change. Now the expert who persuaded me does it the other way . As mentioned it is very near to a 5-card major system. Occasionally you miss a major part score fit but with checkback or equivalent not a major game. Also responses after nt openings or rebids are very clear.

We regularly raise a major suit opening with three card support. We play inverted minors. Mostly it works out ok sometimes not like most systems. I rarely play tournements any more so if it is not best I don't care. What it is is something I can play in a straightforward manner that rarely causes issues in the bidding. Sometimes I play in nt when I should be in a major. At teams it might be an IMP, at pairs it depends on the system people around you are playing but you might have to look for a risky overtrick from time to time. That just makes the game more interesting.

I see lots of problems here where people playing 2/1 say what do you do here. Most of the issues raised don't exist playing 4cm and weak nt so I conclude all systems have issues and I play what is comfortable.

[DavidKok]

I would open the minor and rebid NT normally. Limiting the hand while showing hand type and degree of fit for partner's bid major is so valuable. In a weak NT system the risk is lower as well, since responder more often has enough for another bid.

Your 15-19 rebid conflicts with some of these properties, and I'm not sure how well that carries over.

Weak NT with 5cM is very playable. It has its strong and weak points, like any system. It is not my preferred approach, but most of the flaws I perceive are shared between weak NT 4cM and weak NT 5cM. The only aspect you really have to watch is competitive agreements if your 1♣ gets disturbed - this can be a bit tricky (but also a great opportunity) in 5cM weak NT.

[akwoo]

AL78, on 2026-September-05, 09:27, said:

I could go all the way and play 5CM with prepared club, but would that mean having to change to strong NT as well, or is a 5CM system perfectly fine with weak NT?

5cM with weak NT is my preferred system.

[AL78]

akwoo, on 2026-September-05, 12:41, said:

5cM with weak NT is my preferred system.

That is what I am thinking of leaning towards. I have played 5CM, strong NT in a field where nearly everyone is playing a weak NT, common at club bridge in the UK, and it is swings and roundabouts. Sometimes we play NT the other side to the field which may be good, bad or make no difference, I think one of the biggest factors I can recall is opening 1 minor with a 12-14 balanced hand, it is easier for opps to TOX or come in with their major at the one level whereas they don't have TOX available if I open 1NT and have to overcall at the two level. One of my weaknesses is not being comfortable with interference, often because systemic agreements are not as developed as they maybe should be. An example:

1♠ - (2♦) - 2♥ - (3♦)
?

What do you do when you have a 15-16 balanced or semi-balanced hand without a diamond stop or heart support, 5233 shape?

[johnu]

AL78, on 2026-September-05, 09:27, said:

I could go all the way and play 5CM with prepared club, but would that mean having to change to strong NT as well, or is a 5CM system perfectly fine with weak NT?

Look up the Kaplan–Sheinwold system among others.

[mike777]

AL78, on 2026-September-05, 15:45, said:

) - 2♥ - (3♦)
?

What do you do when you have a 15-16 balanced or semi-balanced hand without a diamond stop or heart support, 5233 shape?

Double

[akwoo]

 AL78, on 2026-September-05, 15:45, said:

1♠ - (2♦) - 2♥ - (3♦)
?

What do you do when you have a 15-16 balanced or semi-balanced hand without a diamond stop or heart support, 5233 shape?

Acol and Kaplan-Sheinwold systemically have different answers to this question:

In Acol, you double. This allows you to pass with weaker hands, but doesn’t give you a way to show stronger ones.

In Kaplan-Sheinwold you pass. Pass in competition more or less shows 15-16 (semi-)balanced with no stopper, and you have to bid 3♠ with an unbalanced 11 count. (With 5233 and 12 hcp, you hopefully opened 1N.). This allows the double to show hands with more strength, or at least more offense.

I’ve always played the Kaplan-Sheinwold approach - honestly I’d find switching to 4 card majors easier than switching how I think about competitive bidding.

[Zelandakh]

The standard in Modern English Acol with a (4432) hand is to open the suits with this priority order: ♥ > ♠ > ♦. If you prefer to open up-the-line then it is best to switch to Swiss Acol, where the 1♠ opening promises 5+ spades. Both are perfectly playable systems.