[pescetom]

MP

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A 3154 rock-crusher and it's almost full moon.
Opponents are not very aggressive, nobody is vulnerable.

What is your opening and how do you plan to rebid?

[mike777]

2C

Probably a pedestrian rebid of 3NT at MP

Dont mind opening 1D and rebidding 3C if in the mood to explore slam

[bluenikki]

pescetom, on 2026-August-27, 09:40, said:

MP

---

A 3154 rock-crusher and it's almost full moon.
Opponents are not very aggressive, nobody is vulnerable.

What is your opening and how do you plan to rebid?

Natural bidding systems do not handle strong 5431s well at all. (Nor 4441s, but they are rare.)

Neither do artificial, but non-relay, systems.

[bluenikki]

pescetom, on 2026-August-27, 09:40, said:

MP

---

A 3154 rock-crusher and it's almost full moon.
Opponents are not very aggressive, nobody is vulnerable.

What is your opening and how do you plan to rebid?

As to the question, I'm happy to open 2♣ and rebid 2NT.

The hard problem would come if the 3- and 4-card suits were switched. Then it would be hard not to bury a slam in the 3-card.

[jillybean]

Ugly, but fortunately, I've just started playing a BIG♣

With everyone else, I have to open 2♣ and over 2RED, 3♦
Breathe

6 minutes and 3 different answers, I think any nt bid is premature and could kill the auction

[pescetom]

bluenikki, on 2026-August-27, 10:58, said:

Natural bidding systems do not handle strong 5431s well at all. (Nor 4441s, but they are rare.)

This happened on one of twenty boards
4441 of any strength is rare (3%), but 5431 is surprisingly the third most frequent shape (11%), which is one of the many reasons I am open to a more liberal interpretation of NT opening.

I note that many experts have specific agreements for 4441 and I can see why, but at I/A level I think one can do a lot worse than consider 4441 balanced in NT range (15-17, 20+). I am more tempted to risk 1♦ in this case with an imposing opening suit.

But lets see what people would do.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2026-August-27, 11:04, said:

With everyone else, I have to open 2♣ and over 2RED, 3♦

Do you really play with nobody who would repudiate 3♦ after 2♣ with this hand?
What are you going to do if they say anything but 4♦?
I understand it is a national/regional/ideology thing.

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2026-August-27, 15:37, said:

Do you really play with nobody who would repudiate 3♦ after 2♣ with this hand?
What are you going to do if they say anything but 4♦?
I understand it is a national/regional/ideology thing.

What do you mean by repudiate, we play 2♣ then 3♦ FG

Also helps that we don't play 2♦ waiting so we know if there is likely a slam immediately

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-August-27, 15:50, said:

What do you mean by repudiate, we play 2♣ then 3♦ FG

We play any rebid over 2♣ - 2♦ other than 2NT as FG, which I think is normal (even obligatory in some places).
I repudiate the idea of 2♣ - 2♦; 3♦ being 5+ inviting a natural bid... it seems to me impractical (how do you fit any suit other than diamonds).
You could play it as either single suited or promising a 4cM, I prefer it to be single-suited asking for 3NT or control-bid.

Cyberyeti, on 2026-August-27, 15:50, said:

Also helps that we don't play 2♦ waiting so we know if there is likely a slam immediately

Nor do we, but let's discuss later what that might have meant.

[jillybean]

We are not doing any repudiating, 3♦ if gf with diamonds, I would rather have 6 but I'd also rather have ♥Kx for NT.

[WasWinM]

I open 1D mainly because I expect to make it.

[mw64ahw]

In my multiverse based system I take minor and diamond orientated strong hands out of 2♣. In this case 2N is pre-emptive ♣s or strong with this type of shape.

After 2N-3♣:
3♦ (xs)54 or (xs)55
3♥ 1345
3♠ 3145
3N xx46

Responder with a strong hand can bid 3♦ to ask for outside values.

(semi)-balanced 20-21 & 22~24 go via reverse 'birthright' with 25~27 via a multi-2♦.

[Cyberyeti]

WasWinM, on 2026-August-27, 18:34, said:

I open 1D mainly because I expect to make it.

Would like to, but hand is just too good, you won't miss a slam but are too likely to miss a game. Admittedly with the major shortage, you may well be rescued by opponents.

[mikeh]

I’ve opened 1 suit with 23 and a 5431, stiff king, I was 1=4=5=3 which is worse than this shape, imo.

This is just too much. 1D 1M 3C is probably one of the most theoretically challenging auctions. With my 1=4=5=3 I could reverse over 1S.

So 2C it is. I don’t think it matters whether one plays 2H as a second negative or just 2D waiting.

I’m not bidding 3D over either of those responses. It could work out but partner won’t expect thiscdiamond suit…I don’t think I’ve done and rarely seen it on a 5 card suit, let alone this one.

My next issue is my rebid over 2D, waiting or gf. Playing Kokish, is this too strong for 2N? I think it is. 2N is 22-23 and while the stiff king is not full values, it’s not bad, plus I have those diamonds. The beauty of being declarer is that one will fairly often score the King…in notrump LHO may lead away from the ace, or either opp may duck when yiu play low to the King. And if partner insists on hearts then stiff king is probably as useful as say Jx.

So 2C then 2H then 2N. One needs good methods over notrump but I suspect most would find the subsequent auction much easier than over a 3D rebid unless one gets lucky….partner bids 3H and we bid 3N.

I’m not sure that a simple (non relay/control showing etc) helps much. Ok, if partner shows a positive, we’re going to be very happy. But say he bids the more likely 1D. Now what? There are ways to let opener show this sort of hand…one could play opener’s 1H as a kokish relay, for example. But absent some special agreement, I think opener’s second bid is tough.