[jillybean]

---

[apollo1201]

I do not play short suit game tries so it will be from my understanding.

We are max but our hand just lost nearly half of its value with D KQ facing a likely sg. Our black honors will probably be useful though, but the quality of our trumps and our very inoffensive distribution will probably not compensate the 1st disappointment, from what I guess partner could have, sth like Axx KQxxx x AQxx. We will need some luck to bring 10 tricks home.

How stronger or weaker partner could be will probably decide the quality of the 4H contract. Similarly, I am not sure if 3NT is a realistic option facing 5431 or even more unbal.


If all the above is not too untrue, the reason tells us to decline the offer and bid 3H.

[steve2005]

One of te worst possible 10 pt habds and 4333 to boot
clear to decline

[Tramticket]

Did we consider a 1NT response on the previous round?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

you have a max, go.
We are also a passed hand, i.e. 11HCP is the best p can hope for.
you play IMPs, go.

Game trys are to decide coin flips, this is not a coin flip.
Game goes down, so be it.

You could offer 3NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

P_Marlowe, on 2026-June-23, 13:23, said:

Hi,

you have a max, go.
We are also a passed hand, i.e. 11HCP is the best p can hope for.
you play IMPs, go.

Game trys are to decide coin flips, this is not a coin flip.
Game goes down, so be it.

You could offer 3NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

agree

[jillybean]

Indeed, my brother did offer 3nt and South, despite the 5-3 heart fit, passed.

---

Lead♣J , North taking 9 tricks
Teammates lead ♠J setting the 4♥S contract at the other table. +13 imp gain helped win the South Island Teams.

Sitting south, I am not sure that I would find pass.

[pescetom]

I think you have the diagram upside down

I would not bid 3NT nor pass it either, with 24-25 HCP on the line it is often easier to make 4♥.
It's the diamonds that make either game impossible on good defence here.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

given the 5431 shape, I would not have passed 3NT.

Leading the Jack of diamonds seems more natural, than leading the Jack of clubs,
obv. the risk is, that you are leading in the tenance, so it may be a DD comment.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2026-June-24, 09:38, said:

I think you have the diagram upside down

I would not bid 3NT nor pass it either, with 24-25 HCP on the line it is often easier to make 4♥.
It's the diamonds that make either game impossible on good defence here.

Thanks, fixed, I was posting it from the Southern Hemisphere I guess

[mike777]

You made a short suit game try, why pull 3NT? You described your hand.

I understand if you bid 4H over 2H but once you involve partner, tell her your hand, passing 3NT is reasonable..

[WasWinM]

After 3D, I bid 2H.
With a 5-loser hand, opener should have bid 4H instead of 3D.

[apollo1201]

 WasWinM, on 2026-June-24, 12:55, said:

After 3D, I bid 2H.
With a 5-loser hand, opener should have bid 4H instead of 3D.

This is also a 5-loser hand
Qxx
KQxxx
x
KQxx

Bidding 4H is a bit exaggerated with the OP hand, and I presume no one moves over 2H with the hand above.

[mike777]

 apollo1201, on 2026-June-24, 14:17, said:

This is also a 5-loser hand
Qxx
KQxxx
x
KQxx

Bidding 4H is a bit exaggerated with the OP hand, and I presume no one moves over 2H with the hand above.

Agree no one moves

Using adjusted losing trick count (LTC) from Klinger book.

2.5 losers in spades
1H
1D
1C
Adjustments
Add one loser for assumed 8 card trump fit
Add one loser for too few Aces and Kings

5.5+1+1=7.5 LTC.
_-----++++++----

OP hand
Adjusted 6 LTC

5 losers plus add one more for assumed 8 card trump fit

Assume constructive 2H raise is 9 loser hand.
24-(6+9)=9 trick hand in total

[jillybean]

WasWinM, on 2026-June-24, 12:55, said:

After 3D, I bid 2H.
With a 5-loser hand, opener should have bid 4H instead of 3D.

Director please

[mycroft]

No Drury? Constructive raises? I can't see being in this situation with any of my partners (save my Precision partner. But that's a whole different world).

I do like 3NT. This could easily be "9 tricks is the limit", and offer. Good guess.

But still, seems weird.

[jillybean]

I don't know about drury and CR
It does seem weird. hmmmm.

Mike, I don't think 3nt bars us from the auction, we are still involved in the decision.

[WasWinM]

jillybean, on 2026-June-24, 18:13, said:

Director please

Of course, that was tongue-in-cheek. The point to make is that game tries, especially short suit, are useful to find games based on fit that wouldn't normally be bid, the idea being that all cards outside the short suit are increased in value. When the short suit is where responder hold KQxx, there is no joy in Mudville as mighty short suit has struck out.

[WasWinM]

apollo1201, on 2026-June-24, 14:17, said:

This is also a 5-loser hand
Qxx
KQxxx
x
KQxx

Bidding 4H is a bit exaggerated with the OP hand, and I presume no one moves over 2H with the hand above.

Yes, and if the expected 2 cover cards are in the right spot, game has a chance; however, this hand is a better use (although still too pushy) of short suit game try as short suit expressly asks pard to evaluate based on his cards outside of the short suit. We can invent hands all day, but even K10x, xxxx, xx. Axxx has a fighting chance. Loser count is only one of the many variables to take into account when making a decision, not the end-all.

Many of the world's greatest players, including Hamman-Wolff in their heyday, would bash into game if they sniffed it instead of delicately describing their hands to the defense.