[luis]

Scoring: IMP

---

12 easy tricks but of course we are interested in 7.
Do you want to play 7c or 7N ?
What chances do you think you have?

Luis

[mike777]

I will leave the correct answer to the good players.
But I have wanted to repeat my old neighbor's advice from my old home town of Studio City Ca.

"In swiss teams or short knockouts, never bid grand slams."


I have also wanted to repeat the advice from a Florida neighbor in my new South.

"If opponents open the bidding at the one level, give up on slam."

As I come back to bridge, following these simple constraints is improving my bridge 100%.

[Double !]

I guess I prefer 7C because I will be able to ruff the third spade to get the count in spades and rectify the hand for any squeeze positions that might exist? In NT, I'd be guessing the spade suit.

As to the question of what my chances are? Chances are that I would screw the whole thing up and get the situation backwards!

[coyot]

Eh, the chances for any squeeze to work when I am missing QJ in each of the three suits are probably not any great (if even remotely possible .

I've played a grand or two when opps opened - you just need two good voids or singleton aces (and an opener with KQJ in two suits ). And, considering the garbage hands some players are willing to open these days, I'd be willing to try grands despite opening bids on my side.

[FrancesHinden]

Clearly 7C is better than 7NT.
What chances do I have? It looks like a compound squeeze. I've only played one successfully once, so I'll be thinking for a while at the table, but let's see...
Suppose that i) they lead a club and ii) East is guarding spades. Then I draw trumps, cash the AK and ruff a spade and come down to this seven card ending:

---

On the penultimate trump East has to let control of a red suit go. I discard a heart from the South hand, and West discards a diamond (otherwise East gets simply squeezed in the majors).

i) If East discarded a heart on the previous trick, I play the last trump and he's probably going to discard another one now; I also ditch a heart from South and West has to release control of diamonds in order to keep hearts guarded. Now heart to the ace, diamond to the King, King of hearts squeezes East in the pointed suits. If instead East lets the other red suit go, I discard a spade and West is simply squeezed in the reds on this trick. This has been a non-simultaneous double squeeze.

ii) If East discarded a diamond on the previous trick, I cash the Ace and King of diamonds before playing the last trump. The last trump now executes a double squeeze with hearts as the pivot suit.

The main feature of a compound squeeze is that one suit is singly guarded, and two suits guarded by both opponents, but that one of those suits has to be let go early and then it turns into a double.

The other feature of a compound squeeze is that it needs very fluid entries. I doubt I can play this line on the lead of either red suit, as I think I need to maintain the AK of both of them for the end position to work (could be wrong, haven't worked it out in detail).

If West is guarding spades I guess I can't do it unless there is an implausible simple squeeze.

[keylime]

Mike-ster,

That reading is paying off. :-)

Now to the problem at hand - 7C HAS to be easier. I can establish possibly the 8 or 9 of spades and eliminate diamonds.

[Fluffy]

7♣ is also better because they can lead a trmp against 7♣, but not against 7NT hehe.

[luis]

Fluffy, on Jul 27 2005, 10:31 AM, said:

7♣ is also better because they can lead a trmp against 7♣, but not against 7NT hehe.

Fluffy :-)
Lead a trump against 7, whoever invented that was so wrong, specially when my pd is a pirate.

AJTx
K98xx

Knowing the queen was missing and having the rest he bid 7♠, they led a side suit and he announced "against 7 lead a trump so she's either void or she has the queen" then proceded to play the spade 9 and when the opening leader played low he announced "since she has a spade and didn't lead it she has the queen" the s9 won the trick and we made 7. He finished with the comment "piece of cake"

[whereagles]

ahah.. lol. Funny finessing... Looks like the sort of thing Reese would do

Incidently, 7C seems better, as the compound squeeze Frances mentioned might very well work.

[mgtusi]

keylime, on Jul 27 2005, 04:40 AM, said:

Mike-ster,

That reading is paying off. :-)

Now to the problem at hand - 7C HAS to be easier. I can establish possibly the 8 or 9 of spades and eliminate diamonds.

Establish the ♠ 8 or 9 ? Do we have those cards ?

Eliminate diamonds ? Do you plan a throw-in ?

[luis]

Scoring: IMP

---

Ok this is the full hand, the bidding was:
1♣ (14+) 2♣ (10+ 5+ clubs)
2N (balanced) 3♣ (6+ no second suit)
4♣ 4NT
5♣ (1/4) 7N

At the table I think my mind worked as Francis described, I recognized this should be a compound squeeze but then coudn't see any wining position, tried to play for a bad discard but they discarded well and 7N was down 1. Destroyed by the result I recognized that 7c should have more chances since you can isolate the spade menace but I thikn there's a lead that defeats 7c do you see it? This is quite a fascinating hand, how would you play 7c? How would you play 7N? How do you defend?

[Walddk]

[FrancesHinden]

The immediate response is that you will go off if they attack your entries. I am pretty certain a heart lead will destroy things (though a low heart lead from West will isolate the heart menace giving you an easy double squeeze).

As for a diamond lead, it's too late at night to work out if you are still OK winning the DK at trick one. My proposed line doesn't quite work, but you may still be OK if you cash the HA earlier...

[luis]

FrancesHinden, on Jul 27 2005, 09:35 PM, said:

The immediate response is that you will go off if they attack your entries. I am pretty certain a heart lead will destroy things (though a low heart lead from West will isolate the heart menace giving you an easy double squeeze).

As for a diamond lead, it's too late at night to work out if you are still OK winning the DK at trick one. My proposed line doesn't quite work, but you may still be OK if you cash the HA earlier...

I have a lot of respect for your proposed line since it was what I tried in 7N at the table, I'm still furious because I was playing 7 when 6 was good for about 8 imps, then because I was playing the wrong 7 and yet again because they managed to discard what they had to! And they didn't know what they were doing!

[1eyedjack]

Great hand.
High heart is the only lead to beat 7C
Low heart is the only lead to let through 7N

Play gets very interesting on low D lead v 7C. It seems that you have to win DK and then NOT isolate the Spade menace. It would seem autopilot to me to ruff a Spade, but then you are down. Strange.

[whereagles]

Luis: that looks like unlucky expert stuff to me

[FrancesHinden]

1eyedjack, on Jul 27 2005, 05:40 PM, said:

Play gets very interesting on low D lead v 7C. It seems that you have to win DK and then NOT isolate the Spade menace. It would seem autopilot to me to ruff a Spade, but then you are down. Strange.

Yes, I was thinking about this in bed last night. The reason I thought a diamond lead beats it is because I needed a late diamond entry back to my hand. But in fact you can take the spade ruff very late instead. The reason we would usually ruff a spade early is to find out if they break 5-2 or worse, or so we know if the long one becomes good later, or in case something handy ruffs down (e.g. if we had A8xx someone might have QJ9). However here we have no hope unless the spade menace is under the long spades, so there's no point in doing this: the menace is "assumption-isolated" at trick one.

[luis]

FrancesHinden, on Jul 28 2005, 08:44 AM, said:

1eyedjack, on Jul 27 2005, 05:40 PM, said:

Play gets very interesting on low D lead v 7C.  It seems that you have to win DK and then NOT isolate the Spade menace.  It would seem autopilot to me to ruff a Spade, but then you are down.  Strange.

Yes, I was thinking about this in bed last night. The reason I thought a diamond lead beats it is because I needed a late diamond entry back to my hand. But in fact you can take the spade ruff very late instead. The reason we would usually ruff a spade early is to find out if they break 5-2 or worse, or so we know if the long one becomes good later, or in case something handy ruffs down (e.g. if we had A8xx someone might have QJ9). However here we have no hope unless the spade menace is under the long spades, so there's no point in doing this: the menace is "assumption-isolated" at trick one.

Thanks! thanks! I wasn't the only person that thought about this hand at night, in fact I played it about 19 times.... Of course had we played 6N we would have won the tournament, 7N down 1 cost 13 and we finished 5th I was devastated because when pd put down the dummy his words were
"12 are there, if you have a queen then 13, if you have a jack 50%, and if you have nothing I'm sure you will find some squeeze"
That's a lot of responsability for my poor mind but we learned a lesson, if you want pd to find a squeeze then play in 7 of a suit not 7NT where the squeeze chances are greater.

[Winstonm]

Walddk, on Jul 27 2005, 01:21 PM, said:

luis, on Jul 27 2005, 07:50 PM, said:

<!-- FULLHAND begin --><table border=1> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> South </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> Both </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> </th> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> KT </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> K98 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> Kx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> KQxxxx </td> </tr> </table> </th> <th> </th> </tr> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> Jxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> QTxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> T8xxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> x </td> </tr> </table> </th> <th> </th> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> Qxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> Jxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> QJ9 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> xxx </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> <tr> <th> </th> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> Axxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> Axx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> Axx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> AJx </td> </tr> </table> </th> <th> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- FULLHAND end -->

Ok this is the full hand, the bidding was:
1♣ (14+)           2♣ (10+ 5+ clubs)
2N (balanced)        3♣ (6+ no second suit)
4♣                    4NT
5♣ (1/4)            7N

.... but I thikn there's a lead that defeats 7c do you see it?

Yes, but if you find that at the table you will be barred from bridge for about 11 years and 4 months. I'd better use hidden text now:

Spoiler

Two leads actually. HQ or H10.

Roland

I don't see how a heart Q of heart or 10 of hearts leads to the defeat of 7N.

After the Q of hearts, won in hand with the Ace, and then 5 rounds of clubs, West will have to find 4 discards. If he pitches diamonds, East will now have to guard diamonds. East will have to find 2 discards. If he discards 1 heart and 1 spade, declarer now has a double squeeze with the spade suit as the double threat. If East discards 2 spades, then there is another squeeze after the last club - east will have to unguard either spades or hearts and depending on which one, another double squeeze will occur .

If West discards his spades and east 1 diamond and 1 spade, then declarer will have a double squeeze with West guarding diamonds, East guarding spades, and neither able to guard hearts.

If West discards spades and east hearts, then another double squeeze will materialize with diamonds as the double threat.

No one ever gets rich arguing with Roland, but it looks to me like this is a 100% make as long as declarer can read the positions.

Winston

[1eyedjack]

Winstonm, on Jul 28 2005, 11:43 AM, said:

I don't see how a heart Q of heart or 10 of hearts leads to the defeat of 7N.

I assume you mean 7C not 7N. Any lead except low H beats 7N. It requires Q or 10 of H to beat 7C.

I think that the problem is that South is squeezed before West.

Say you come down to:

........S:KT
........H:K9
........D:Kx
........C:x

S:J8x.......S:Q9
H:T..........H:Jx
D:Jxx.......D:Qxx
C:-..........C:-

........S:Axx
........H:x
........D:Axx
........C:-

On the last Club lead from North, East has to keep both Hearts but can let either Spade or Diamond go. Then South has to choose, then West can discard Heart.
What next? Cannot get squeeze to operate.