[mikestar]

Let's define a "midpoint hand" as a hand (relative to the bidding context) that is of absolutely equal merit for offense and defense.

A takeout double expects partner to bid with a midpoint hand, any hand more offensive, or a hand slightly more defensive. Partner may pass a hand significantly more defensive.

A penalty double expects patner to pass with a midpoint hand, any hand more defensive, or a hand slightly more offensive. Partner may bid with a hand significantly more offensive.

An optional double expects partner to bid any hand more offensive than a midpoint hand and pass anything more defensive. (With an actual midpoint hand, partner is on a guess.)

The level of bidding shifts the boundaries--a low level penalty double may be taken out quite freely, and a high level takeout double may be left in quite freely.

Thus (1♥)-X-(1♠)-X is a clearcut penalty double, but partner will tend to take it out with good offense and bad defense, even though the imbalance isn't great, while (1♥)-X-(4♠) is also a penalty double, but it will typically only be taken out if partner has a spade void and some minor suit slam prospects.

On the other hand, (1♥)-X-(2♥)-P-(P)-X is a clearcut takeout double and it will only rarely be left in--say with a trump stack and poor offense, while (1♥)-X-(4♥)-P-(P)-X is also for takeout, but will usually be left in unless partner has short hearts and long spades.

[helene_t]

Allthough the term "optional double" may be bad use of language, the idea that a double could be somewhere between a penalty double and a take-out double makes sense in some situations. For example:
1NT-(whatever)-dbl*
This could be agreed as t/o, penalty, or somewhere in between. Chris Niemeijer calls the latter a "assign-the-blame-to-partner"-dbl. It is sometimes called optional.

[pmacfar]

helene_t, on Jul 28 2005, 08:21 AM, said:

1NT-(whatever)-dbl*
This could be agreed as t/o, penalty, or somewhere in between. Chris Niemeijer calls the latter a "assign-the-blame-to-partner"-dbl. It is sometimes called optional.

Which partner gets the blame?

The one that made the double or the one that failed to take it out and bid something else?

[Fluffy]

Chamaco, on Jul 27 2005, 07:27 AM, said:

How do you define a "cardshowing" double independent of shortness in opps suit(usually with a bal hand)?
- Takeout
- Penalty
- Cooperative/optional
- other ?

PS- Please respond seriously, it's all to easy to make jokes about such a question

Those doubles, althou popular in Italy, are not very common in the rest of the world.

[Chamaco]

Fluffy, on Jul 29 2005, 10:47 AM, said:

Those doubles, althou popular in Italy, are not very common in the rest of the world.

The type of "cardshowing" double I refer to is something like:

1C-(1H)-1S-(p)
2C-(2H)-DBL

This double is not pure penalty nor pure takeout.
It shows "cards" and no clear direction.
Such kind of doubles are frequent in many other sequences.

So what I mean is that there is a huge constellation of doubles which are in-betwen business and T/O: then I won't argue about how to name them: "cooperative", "optional", "cardshowing".