[toastlots]

Genuine question I need to know how to deal with please,
My partner opens a minor suit and I respond with say 1 spade.
I have 4 spades with face cards points of 10.
My partner jumps to 3S.
Is it my responsibility to decide if 4S is the right bid?
I believe as my partner opened, they should make that decision, not me?
I have been in this position a few times before and I either go 4 and we are set or i leave it at 3 and I get 11 tricks.
It does not feel right to push that decision onto a partner with relatively low points.

[paulg]

Your partner's rebid of 3♠ is known as a limit bid (of which there are many varieties) or 'an invitational jump'. Essentially your partner is limiting their hand and inviting you to make a final decision.

You can expect four spades opposite and either a balanced hand of 16-17 points (if possible and not a 1NT opener) or an unbalanced with around 5-6 losers. Remember that opener will expect you to have a minimum of 6 points, so will bid game directly with hands that are worth 18 points or more.

In your case, you have 10 high-card points. This is significantly stronger than the weakest hand you can have when you responded 1♠, so you are expected to raise to game.

[toastlots]

Thank you for that, will do so going forward:)

[apollo1201]

I couldnt say better than Paul.

More generally, when someone has rather well described their hand, both in terms of HCP and distribution type (degree of fit, balanced or not, etc.), it is the other hand duty to make the final call, unless more info can be extracted and is necessary to conclude.

For instance you have 12 HCO and a 6-cd M, partner opens 1m and rebids 1NT on your 1M bid. Showing 12-14 balanced. You know the final destination now.

On the contrary, over 1NT from partner, you have a 8-9 HCP hand with no major. Partner has limited their hand, yet, you need to ask min or max to see if 3NT is playable. With 7, you do not need more info as game is impossible, and make the final call by passing in a decent contract. With 10, you directly bid 3NT.

Those 2 examples are from responder but it can also be opener to make the final call. Say you open 1m and partner bids 2NT, 10+ to 12- points, balanced. With a balanced 12, you know to pass; with a decent 14, you know you should raise.

In your example you know game should be bid (16 + 10 and fit), partner could absolutely not as 1S is 6+ (unlimited).

[mycroft]

I agree with Paul almost completely, except that I find it easier to handle if the top of the 3♠ range is 18 or a bad 19 instead of 17. Two reasons:

• I don't play hands as well as Paul. I say "I don't *want to* play 24-point games, but I will if it means we don't miss 26-point games." Now, for 30+ years, at the top level, they've been bidding all 24s and challenging the opponents to find the setting defence if there is one, but again, I don't play as well as Paul (or Eric Rodwell). Also, I like being able to "respond on an Ace" or on some hands that are better "anywhere else" than the opened minor (see previous threads here) - and now we're playing 23- or 22-point games.
  
• 1m-1♠; 4♠, even with opener's splinters available, is a difficult auction to handle when you have the 11 or 12-count instead of the 6. It's even harder when opener's range is 18-21 (or more, when partner has the 4-6 "two-suiter" that really doesn't want to start with 2♣, then 3♦, then "maybe we have a 4-4 major fit?") than it is if it's "good 19-21".(*)

But there's a reason Paul's name is in the bulletin for his results at the top level, and mine is there because I am a movement perfectionist. So, take advice with that in mind.

[paulg]

I think it is easy for less experienced players to get bored with a weak hand and over-excited when holding a lot of points. This leads to underbidding bad hands and overbidding good hands.

What you hope to do over time is develop experience and judgement: for example, if you have limited your hand, then you have a good hand if you are at the top of that limit and a poor hand if you are at the bottom of the limit. You learn this first when you open 1NT and have to make a choice over partner's invitational raise. But it applies in so many more situations.

[pescetom]

I would only add two things:

1) there is a specific forum for this level of question: using it ensures that other novices will benefit from the discussion and that you will not receive over-technical general discussion (which luckily did not happen in this case)

2) a natural invite having limited strength is non-forcing and thus puts (or confirms) partner in the decision seat with the right to pass. If you can't afford that (not here, but maybe in some other situation) then you should keep forcing somehow (or risk game).

[barmar]

I agree with Mycroft -- my upper limit for 3♠ is balanced 18 HCP. But with a side singleton or void, it can be as low as 15 HCP.

[mw64ahw]

Refining @Paul's comment.
If you make the the raise on 5.5 mod. losers or any 18-19 then partner with 9.5 or better can raise to 4♠. In practice that 5.5 can be shaved to 6 given fit benefit.

[toastlots]

Thank you everyone, some of the advice I can follow, others (this is me not you) I find hard to follow.
paulg expressed me the best I suspect in his post at 12.11.
I lack a lot of confidence when trying to support what my partner bid, but apollo1201 post helped.
I played a goulash yesterday (my other player) and these are great for experimenting to a degree, but yet again I failed to provide the best bid.
My partner opened 4C, and i went 5, but with 12 face card points and the Ace in Clubs, as soon as the hand started, I knew I should have bid 6C minimum, but then I was scared to do so in case we went down.
The times I have gone for it and hand failed and others not gone for it and extra tricks obtained.
Only playing more hands will I hope improve my confidence.
This is why I often enjoy Gib hands because I cannot offend a Gib:)

[P_Marlowe]

toastlots, on 2026-April-23, 02:03, said:

<snip>
I played a goulash yesterday (my other player) and these are great for experimenting to a degree, but yet again I failed to provide the best bid.
<snip>

Goulash is not a good method to hone your bidding skills.

Basically the aim in the bidding is to discover, if you side has enough for game,
each bid sends a message about the lower / upper limit of the hand strength.

Paul partially references loosers, ..., and than mixes it with points.
The following uses only points.
Points work well enough, as long as the hands involved are not too freakish,
which is the majority of hands. If the hands get freakish, like in Goulash, points no longer
work, the loosing trick count works better, but first try to understand the evaluation of
boring hands.

The usual required strength to make a contract on the game level (3NT, 4H, 4S) is 25,
if yes to bid it, if no you pass.

If you open, the lower level is 12, the upper level is undefined.
If you respond, the lower level is 6, the upper level is undefined.
Your partner raises your suit, he limits his hand to an upper level,
i.e. a single raise gives you an upper bound of 15,
a jump raise gives you an upper bound of 18 ( ... with 19, he would have
enough to be sure of 25), he also raises is lower limit by 3-4, i.e. he
now will have at least 15/16.

Your task is to look at your hand and decide if you have enough to get to the 25.

And this brings me to

toastlots, on 2026-April-23, 02:03, said:

<snip>
I believe as my partner opened, they should make that decision, not me?
<snip>

The answer is: both make the decision, and you bid on, if you cannot make
the decision.

[blackshoe]

"Must not lose to fear!" -- Mr. Miyagi