[jillybean]

What a great idea from Down Under
P Plates
‘Inexperienced’ players may carry a P-plate at our regular sessions which alerts the opponents that they are playing against new/inexperienced players.

This ‘asks’ that the opponents revert to ‘simple’ bidding.

When playing against a ‘P-plater’ please follow the ‘Monday Simple System’ bidding so:
• 1♣ openings should show at least 3; so an opening bid of 1♣ or 1♦ is ‘better minor’.
• No transfer bids after 1♣ Openings
• No Multi-2s • No brown sticker conventions or yellow systems

PLUS All to play Standard American with a strong 1NT AND then as the auction unfolds: Please ‘Keep-it-Simple’

Furthermore as per our updated Regulation 5: 5. NEW PLAYERS AND SYSTEM CARDS In accordance with the ABF Law 40-C-3a, new players will be allowed to consult their systems card, and notes, during the auction and play for the first year. NB: P-plates cannot be used in our ‘Special’ events which include Championships and Our Congress.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-March-16, 06:57, said:

What a great idea from Down Under
P Plates
‘Inexperienced’ players may carry a P-plate at our regular sessions which alerts the opponents that they are playing against new/inexperienced players.

This ‘asks’ that the opponents revert to ‘simple’ bidding.

When playing against a ‘P-plater’ please follow the ‘Monday Simple System’ bidding so:
• 1♣ openings should show at least 3; so an opening bid of 1♣ or 1♦ is ‘better minor’.
• No transfer bids after 1♣ Openings
• No Multi-2s • No brown sticker conventions or yellow systems

PLUS All to play Standard American with a strong 1NT AND then as the auction unfolds: Please ‘Keep-it-Simple’

Furthermore as per our updated Regulation 5: 5. NEW PLAYERS AND SYSTEM CARDS In accordance with the ABF Law 40-C-3a, new players will be allowed to consult their systems card, and notes, during the auction and play for the first year. NB: P-plates cannot be used in our ‘Special’ events which include Championships and Our Congress.

It's a great idea, although in practice a lot of it is already in place, in the clubs I frequent at least: beginners are allowed to consult their card and notes, opponents are discouraged from playing weird stuff against them, clubs are allowed to restrict weird stuff in local games (although few do).

I suspect that "all to play Standard American" is a terrible choice for a simple standard system in Aussie, given that mycroft has repeatedly clarified that it is a poor choice even in NA.
I would mandate and synthesize whatever they are being taught, which is probably some flavour of 2/1.

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2026-March-16, 10:09, said:

It's a great idea, although in practice a lot of it is already in place, in the clubs I frequent at least: beginners are allowed to consult their card and notes, opponents are discouraged from playing weird stuff against them, clubs are allowed to restrict weird stuff in local games (although few do).

I suspect that "all to play Standard American" is a terrible choice for a simple standard system in Aussie, given that mycroft has repeatedly clarified that it is a poor choice even in NA.
I would mandate and synthesize whatever they are being taught, which is probably some flavour of 2/1.

I can't speak for Aussie but NZ still teaches Acol to new players.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-March-16, 10:39, said:

I can't speak for Aussie but NZ still teaches ACOL to new players.

Better than Standard American at any rate, at least they will learn the basics of natural bidding without too many obsolete conventions (although then have to start again almost from scratch with 2/1 GF).

Italy now teaches a simplified 2/1 GF system directly, with 4 card diamonds and strong NT. That makes them immediately understandable to the rest of the room and helps them understand what little the others do differently and why.
I was sceptical at first but am now convinced, it gets them into the main game much faster even if they struggle to understand the underlying logic of what they are doing.

[jillybean]

I was teethed on SAYC and fiercely defended and hung onto it for years, it was marketed as the only way to play. I think I can agree now that if we are not going to take the plunge into 2/1, ACOL would be a better start

[HardVector]

I'm going to disagree, and I'm willing to bet that nobody will agree with my take. I'm all for teaching new players to bridge...wait for it...Goren. Everything is natural. All jump shifts are strong and forcing to game. This, in my opinion is the easiest entry to bridge. You do let them know that there are more efficient and informative methods, but this is easiest to understand. The problem with just saying learn SAYC or learn ACOL, is that everyone has their pet version of this they use all around the conventions that are considered standard to the system. For instance, you agree to play SAYC and the bidding goes; 1c-2h, what did your partner just describe? I've seen the following hands all shown after this, all of them stating that is the "standard" meaning of it.
A KQJTxx Ax xxxx, xx KQxxxx QJx xx, Jxxx KQJxx Kxx x, x Jxxxxx xxx Qxx. What is your "standard"?

[pescetom]

 HardVector, on 2026-March-17, 14:32, said:

I'm going to disagree, and I'm willing to bet that nobody will agree with my take. I'm all for teaching new players to bridge...wait for it...Goren. Everything is natural. All jump shifts are strong and forcing to game. This, in my opinion is the easiest entry to bridge. You do let them know that there are more efficient and informative methods, but this is easiest to understand. The problem with just saying learn SAYC or learn ACOL, is that everyone has their pet version of this they use all around the conventions that are considered standard to the system. For instance, you agree to play SAYC and the bidding goes; 1c-2h, what did your partner just describe? I've seen the following hands all shown after this, all of them stating that is the "standard" meaning of it.
A KQJTxx Ax xxxx, xx KQxxxx QJx xx, Jxxx KQJxx Kxx x, x Jxxxxx xxx Qxx. What is your "standard"?

I disagree because I don't think Goren can claim more than one of the three (admittedly contrasting) desirable characteristics for a beginner system: natural, simple, effective. Acol at its purest is both simple and natural, all it takes is some discipline in not embellishing it with pet conventions. The problem is that they will take a hiding while playing it and if they are still around in a year then have to start over again with a better system.

FWIW I I like the almost opposite approach of starting them with a basic strong club system: incredibly simple, surprisingly effective. Natural can come later, in the meantime they get into the big pool and learn more important skills like hand evaluation and defence.

But I am increasingly convinced by just starting with 2/1 and minimal conventions. They struggle to understand the logic of what they are doing, but they get into the big pool and can play with anyone who is willing. Our experienced players accept that much better than they would an order to play some beginner system.

[blackshoe]

pescetom, on 2026-March-16, 10:09, said:

I suspect that "all to play Standard American" is a terrible choice for a simple standard system in Aussie, given that mycroft has repeatedly clarified that it is a poor choice even in NA.

"No, I don't know Precision, but I do know Standard American, and what better reason could I have for playing Precision." -- The Hideous Hog.

[jillybean]

I don't think the problem is with SAYC, or any system per se. It's is that newer players are taught that you must never stray from this system, it is the Law.
If every bridge expert and teacher said, "this is one way to play the game, yada yada, but as you progress you will find many other options"

But back to the OP, we can understand the intent of asking you cowboys to play "SAYC", please play vanilla bridge against "P" players.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-March-20, 09:15, said:

I don't think the problem is with SAYC, or any system per se. It's is that newer players are taught that you must never stray from this system, it is the Law.
If every bridge expert and teacher said, "this is one way to play the game, yada yada, but as you progress you will find many other options"

But back to the OP, we can understand the intent of asking you cowboys to play "SAYC", please play vanilla bridge against "P" players.

Agreed, but even if they accept that request (ours won't, unless the tournament is expressly for beginners, not merely open to them) many of them struggle to understand what is vanilla and what is not, or their vanilla is still loaded with obsolete or bizarre conventions (vintage Stayman sequences, 1NT-4NT ace asking, etc.) which no beginner will understand (or have the wisdom to ignore).

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2026-March-20, 10:04, said:

Agreed, but even if they accept that request (ours won't, unless the tournament is expressly for beginners, not merely open to them) many of them struggle to understand what is vanilla and what is not, or their vanilla is still loaded with obsolete or bizarre conventions (vintage Stayman sequences, 1NT-4NT ace asking, etc.) which no beginner will understand (or have the wisdom to ignore).

AFAIK, P plates apply to regular sessions at the club, not tournaments.

[akwoo]

I think the problem is that there are a lot of intermediates and life novices playing an old partially homegrown system, and they have no idea what "vanilla" is (or, worse, they think what they do is "vanilla").

No matter what, you're going to have some players at the club who cannot recognize reverses, despite having played for a long time. A small number of them have developed (not very good) methods to cope with this disability, and they've actually forgotten how to play without them.

[jillybean]

I doubt that it is the reverse and 1nt-4nt type auctions that are the problem, nor the life novices whose auction may make no sense.
I imagine this P Plate initiative aimed at the the 10-12nt, t-walsh, multi, 5 card preempt "aggressive" bidders who simply make it impossible for their (new player) opponents to play vanilla bridge.

If you click on the link in the OP,
P Plates

‘Inexperienced’ players may carry a P-plate at our regular sessions which alerts the opponents that they are playing against new/inexperienced players.
This ‘asks’ that the opponents revert to ‘simple’ bidding.
When playing against a ‘P-plater’ please follow the ‘Monday Simple System’ bidding so:

1♣ openings should show at least 3♣s; so an opening bid of 1♣ or 1♦ is ‘better minor’.
• No transfer bids after 1♣ Openings
• No Multi-2s
• No brown sticker conventions or yellow systems

PLUS All to play Standard American with a strong 1NT AND then as the auction unfolds: Please ‘Keep-it-Simple’

I think the last line is misplaced, other that , you know who needs to pay attention to this, and wouldn't it be nice to know who the new players were so we can be gentle and polite and not scare them off before they start.

[paulg]

jillybean, on 2026-March-20, 09:15, said:

I don't think the problem is with SAYC, or any system per se. It's is that newer players are taught that you must never stray from this system, it is the Law.

I think that this is really the best way to teach as beginners like rules and certainty. Those who progress quickly will soon discover that it is not true but you need to get to a certain level to do this.

This is why I never teach beginners as I know that there is rarely a right answer and there are just options, some of which are more popular and that will work more often than others, but nothing is guaranteed. A new player does not want to hear that GIB and some countries think that 1♦-1♥-1NT denies four spades but I think it does not, so you must just choose the one that fits your style!

Acol (please do not capitalise) is an awful system to learn, even though it is still taught throughout the UK. There is no defined system, very few rules and it requires judgement. If you want to see top players playing Acol on BBO Vugraph, then you will see it once in a blue moon and they will not be playing the Acol you've been taught.

[jillybean]

paulg, on 2026-March-20, 11:24, said:

I think that this is really the best way to teach as beginners like rules and certainty. Those who progress quickly will soon discover that it is not true but you need to get to a certain level to do this.

Yes, fair enough. I suppose we are left to suffer the rest of them who don't progress and lord over those who they think aren't playing the game.


Anyway, I don't think P Plates would hurt those clubs struggling to attract and retain new players.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2026-March-20, 10:39, said:

AFAIK, P plates apply to regular sessions at the club, not tournaments.

I forgot again, mea culpa. "Tournament" over here is any competition, including a club session so long as scores are totalled.
But "regular" can be many things.
To give an example, in our mid-level club, we have each week:
- one or two (don't ask) national sims, with a certified Director to enforce Laws and Regulations (beginners are discouraged from participating)
- a beginner's session, where every pair has one or two beginners and the beginner's card (simplified 2/1) is obligatory
- one or two (don't ask) open sessions, mainly for eternal beginners but with some real beginners learning to swim
- the friday night session, which is more competitive but with tolerance for drinking and unusual systems (although they asked me not to play forcing pass again).
The P plate might be useful (although fairly superfluous, they know who is a beginner) in the open session, but they won't give up their favourite convention (even if just messing with the stop card).

jillybean, on 2026-March-20, 11:13, said:

I doubt that it is the reverse and 1nt-4nt type auctions that are the problem, nor the life novices whose auction may make no sense.
I imagine this P Plate initiative aimed at the the 10-12nt, t-walsh, multi, 5 card preempt "aggressive" bidders who simply make it impossible for their (new player) opponents to play vanilla bridge.

Our T-Walsh or weird stuff pairs will only play the sim or Friday night, where beginners have to look after themselves.
Beginners may encounter Multi in the open session but that seems to be considered all right for anyone, for some reason.

[AL78]

paulg, on 2026-March-20, 11:24, said:

Acol (please do not capitalise) is an awful system to learn, even though it is still taught throughout the UK. There is no defined system, very few rules and it requires judgement. If you want to see top players playing Acol on BBO Vugraph, then you will see it once in a blue moon and they will not be playing the Acol you've been taught.

I don't think it is that bad, it is logical to teach that to beginners in the UK because some form of acol is what the majority of club players play, so if they are started off with acol, three weak twos, weak NT, 2C big, there is a good chance they will be able to play with a pickup partner if/when they decide to venture into the club duplicate. I play acol all the time for the same reason, it is what the majority play and I don't have a regular enthusiastic partner that is willing to learn new things and optimise everything. If you are looking for a partner and you only play precision or 5 card majors, partnerships are going to be harder to come by. The objective is not to teach beginners the best system possible, it is to get them playing and a good way to do that is to teach them the system that the majority will be playing.