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Tarik, thanks for the examples you posted.
Note that it will be a while until we manage to fix the issues.
If this makes you angry, then maybe it's indeed better to take a break.
You are welcome to share more examples any time.
I like your passion. And thank you for your patience.
ROBOTS ARE AWFUL
#22
- Group: Members
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 2014-November-22
Posted Yesterday, 07:02
Not that I am complaining. But the result of all my writing was that I dont now have challenge reward in my BBO menu!!!
Is this the result of trying to get BBO improve robots' bidding? "If you dont like robots' bidding, you will not be able to play challenge reward any more. Thats our solution!!". Incredible.
Is this the result of trying to get BBO improve robots' bidding? "If you dont like robots' bidding, you will not be able to play challenge reward any more. Thats our solution!!". Incredible.
#23
- Group: Members
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 2014-November-22
Posted Yesterday, 10:28
lorserker, on 2026-January-27, 09:25, said:
Tarik, thanks for the examples you posted.
Note that it will be a while until we manage to fix the issues.
If this makes you angry, then maybe it's indeed better to take a break.
You are welcome to share more examples any time.
I like your passion. And thank you for your patience.
Note that it will be a while until we manage to fix the issues.
If this makes you angry, then maybe it's indeed better to take a break.
You are welcome to share more examples any time.
I like your passion. And thank you for your patience.
No I am not angry at all. If you will really try to i prove robots' bidding I'm just happy.
I can REALLY post a thousand more examples. If you will do anything about it, I think you need to impose a completely new bidding scheme to robots. I mean they really need radical changes, they have no "reason" in bidding.
And if you do, I will be one of the first to pay for improved robots.
Play is relatively tolerable, and they sometimes even make incredibly good defense and play; but also very primitive mistakes too.
#24
- Group: Staff
- Posts: 164
- Joined: 2007-November-26
- Gender:Male
Posted Yesterday, 14:27
Tarik, thanks for the feedback.
We didn't really touch bidding lately.
All the recent focus went into card play.
Seems like we need to look into bidding as well.
You mention that a lot of changes are needed in bidding.
What changes do you expect? Change of bidding system, or conventions, or something else?
We didn't really touch bidding lately.
All the recent focus went into card play.
Seems like we need to look into bidding as well.
You mention that a lot of changes are needed in bidding.
What changes do you expect? Change of bidding system, or conventions, or something else?
#25
- Group: Members
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 2014-November-22
Posted Yesterday, 20:37
Not the system, they play 2/1 and it's fine.
you can add more conventions if you you want. but thats the polish, something to be done later.
In order to really help, I need to understand how they bid. I mean, how the bidding is coded to robots..Is there a decision tree, is each bidding sequence hard coded, or what?
hard coding each sequence is a solution.
But if i were to jump into robot bidding area, I would first develop a bidding language. it will be a relatively relatively simple language and will work tru an interpreter. I am speaking in Sw develepor terms now. in order to understand, think of it as something similar to a dealer script. a dealer script decides what the hand will contain. a similar scripting language may decide what the hand will bid, according to what it contains and what are the previous bids. thats a (better) way for hard coding a bidding system into the robot.
Another way would of course be using AI and neural networks.
But who am I to give you technical directions.
The bidding problems sent to you by all BBO members can help you to fix where robots go wrong, by recreating the scenario and debugging the bidding flow.
you can add more conventions if you you want. but thats the polish, something to be done later.
In order to really help, I need to understand how they bid. I mean, how the bidding is coded to robots..Is there a decision tree, is each bidding sequence hard coded, or what?
hard coding each sequence is a solution.
But if i were to jump into robot bidding area, I would first develop a bidding language. it will be a relatively relatively simple language and will work tru an interpreter. I am speaking in Sw develepor terms now. in order to understand, think of it as something similar to a dealer script. a dealer script decides what the hand will contain. a similar scripting language may decide what the hand will bid, according to what it contains and what are the previous bids. thats a (better) way for hard coding a bidding system into the robot.
Another way would of course be using AI and neural networks.
But who am I to give you technical directions.
The bidding problems sent to you by all BBO members can help you to fix where robots go wrong, by recreating the scenario and debugging the bidding flow.
#26
- Group: Members
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 2014-November-22
Posted Yesterday, 21:01
not only robots lack some bidding "knowledge", they also lack bidding "sense". I think it should be hard coded via a scripting language . the bidding language is important because with the help of a language you can teach what to do in many similar bidding situations by a few lines of code, instead of listing all possible scenarios.
An imaginary code with an imaginary scripting language would be
If (vulnerbaility=favorable) and (position=3 or position=4)
lightopenings= true
a simple code to let robots open light in third or fourth seats
An imaginary code with an imaginary scripting language would be
If (vulnerbaility=favorable) and (position=3 or position=4)
lightopenings= true
a simple code to let robots open light in third or fourth seats
#27
- Group: Members
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 2014-November-22
Posted Yesterday, 21:13
I think it's a goal that cannot be acheived by perfect code at once. robots should learn bidding just how we learned. scenario by scenario, adding simple pieces of knowledge now and then. You will have to work continuously on the bidding system, until it gets near to perfect. Looking into it each time it went wrong, and fixing the source of error. You can (for example) add 0.1 BBO$ to everybody's BBO account who send you a robot misbidding hand and look at all of these hands!
#28
- Group: Members
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 2014-November-22
Posted Yesterday, 21:43
Last words.
I also play chess. And you probably know how strong chess programs play today..Much better than the world chess champions.
With my bridge friends, who also complain much about robots, we were speaking many times about the inefficacy of bridge softwares, and wondering why the vendors could not produce better programs.
So i will really be happy when I see such software around. If you manage it, you will probably get ahead of all other bridge sites by a very large margin.
I also play chess. And you probably know how strong chess programs play today..Much better than the world chess champions.
With my bridge friends, who also complain much about robots, we were speaking many times about the inefficacy of bridge softwares, and wondering why the vendors could not produce better programs.
So i will really be happy when I see such software around. If you manage it, you will probably get ahead of all other bridge sites by a very large margin.