[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 Pass  1♣    Pass  1♠
 Pass  2♣    Pass  ?


How would you bid this?
I bid 2♥ and played in 3nt after my p supported ♥'s,
but was not entirely happy not showing my ♠

tyia
jb

[Walddk]

I think 2♥ is an excellent bid if you have the partnership agreement that partner can support to no more than 3♥ if he has 4. It looks like he did when the hand was played, and that you now bid 3♠, showing a good 6-card spade suit (with probably just 3 hearts).

If partner now bids 3NT, it's his decision. Is this what happened?

By the way, the hand is good for the Weak Jump Shift gadget. 1♠ followed by a jump to 3♠ is now game forcing with 6+ goodish spades, whereas 2♠ would be invitational with a 6-card suit, since responder did not jump to 2♠ over 1♣ (WJS).

If WJS are not on the cc, a 3♠ rebid by responder is only invitational with 6, and the hand is too strong for that.

Roland

[mike777]

Yes, this hand type is always tough in a natural system.
I would jump to 3nt over 2clubs but...

[jillybean]

Err, no agreements
I bid 3nt after 3♥, worried he may chose to play 4♥ if I rebid my ♠.
I didnt realise 2♥ here only promises 3

Auction was:

1♣:1♠
2♣:2♥
3♥:3nt

[Walddk]

jillybean2, on Jul 24 2005, 05:59 PM, said:

Err, no agreements 
I bid 3nt after 3♥, worried he may chose to play 4♥ if I rebid my ♠.
I didnt realise 2♥ here only promises 3

Auction was:

1♣:1♠
2♣:2♥
3♥:3nt

Until further notice your partner should assume that you have 4 hearts when you rebid 2♥, so he will support if he has 4. However, your next bid should be 3♠ and not 3NT. If notrump is right, your partner will bid 3NT now, offering you a choice of games. If you have 4 hearts, you will correct to 4♥. With the actual hand, you will pass.

By bidding 3NT yourself instead of 3♠ you show an adequate holding in diamonds for NT. The 4 and the 3 are not exactly stoppers

Roland

[whereagles]

This hand has a simpler solution: just rebid 4S.

With a spade less you'd need a gadget like 3rd suit forcing or some guesswork

[jillybean]

Ah yes, the ♦ were a bit of a gamble as were entires to my hand

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 Pass  1♣    Pass  1♠
 Pass  2♣    Pass  2♥
 Pass  3♥    Pass  3NT
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

[luke warm]

the trouble with 2H followed by 3NT comes about when (if) partner supports, as here... what do you bid if he goes to 4H over 3NT, showing (i suppose) a 4/6 hand?

for that matter, what do you do if it goes:

1c : 1s
2c : 2h
3h : 3s
4h

it's true that 4H might make on the moysian, but i'd rather be in 4S.. for that reason, i think i'd bid it:

1c : 1s
2c : 4s

[flytoox]

I think 2D is better than 2H after 2C. 3N might be better than 4S.

[Fluffy]

this looks perfect for the 'third suit forcing' thing were 2♦ is used on almost every forcing hand.

[keylime]

Somewhat awkward hand. The QT of clubs are nice fillers, but the heart queen is yet proven.

I like a three spade bid. It's down the middle, doesn't hang pard too badly, and 3NT isn't out of the picture.

[helene_t]

Unless we have detailed agreement about third-suit-forcing (or new-suit-invitational or whatever 2♦ would be called), I just bid 4♠.

Termilogy issue: can you call 2♦ "New Minor Forcing"? I thought that term was used only after a notrump rebid.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

First question: what would a direct 2S bid have meant?
Probably strong, in which case you should have bid that.

Without any further agreeements just bid 4S, what you
want to play. Please check out a convention called New Minor
Forcing, which handles this kind of situation, a convetion
similar to 4th suit forcing.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Walddk]

P_Marlowe, on Jul 25 2005, 12:55 PM, said:

Please check out a convention called New Minor
Forcing, which handles this kind of situation, a convetion
similar to 4th suit forcing.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Sorry Marlowe, but this auction has nothing to do with New Minor Forcing. That convention relates to an auction where opener rebids 1NT. Example:

1♦ - 1♠
1N - 2♣

You can read about NMF by clicking on:

http://www.bridgeguy...norForcing.html

....

1♣ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♦

True, 2♦ is forcing (as is any new suit by responder), but it is not the NMF convention. A rather common misunderstanding unfortunately.

Roland

[P_Marlowe]

Walddk, on Jul 25 2005, 06:17 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Jul 25 2005, 12:55 PM, said:

Please check out a convention called New Minor
Forcing, which handles this kind of situation, a convetion
similar to 4th suit forcing.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Sorry Marlowe, but this auction has nothing to do with New Minor Forcing. That convention relates to an auction where opener rebids 1NT. Example:

1♦ - 1♠
1N - 2♣

You can read about NMF by clicking on:

http://www.bridgeguy...norForcing.html

....

1♣ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♦

True, 2♦ is forcing (as is any new suit by responder), but it is not the NMF convention. A rather common misunderstanding unfortunately.

Roland

Hi Roland,

I agree, the convention i refered too is usually called 3rd suit forcing,
which is not exaclty NMF, ..., but I am a guy who throws all things
into the same labled box, just for memory sake.

The reference to 4th suit, was meant in the sense, that this two
convention no more advanced than 4th suit, a convention every
beginner should learn, shortly after he learnt to spell stayman /
blackwood.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

P_Marlowe, on Jul 25 2005, 01:30 PM, said:

but I am a guy who throws all things
into the same labled box, just for memory sake.

Lol. American is an easy language:
"Stuff": applies to anything
"Bug": applies to any invertebrate
"New Minor Forcing": applies to any convention

Just a silly remark, please don't take offense

[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

---

If '3rd suit forcing' was used here and say auction went:


1♣ : 1♠
2♣ : 2♦
3NT

Now I must bid 4♠ ?

ty
jb

[whereagles]

3NT would show very little interest in spades, so you should expect a singleton or void spade. Whether or not to bid 4S now depends on your evaluation and tactical factors.

If LHO is a good player and RHO not-so-hot, let the 3NT stand. Swap the two opps and you should bid 4S because the not-so-hot player might blow a trick in the lead

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean2, on Jul 25 2005, 09:06 AM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: EW Scoring: IMP

♠ AKQT76 ♥ Q97 ♦ 43 ♣ QT

If '3rd suit forcing' was used here and say auction went:


1♣ : 1♠
2♣ : 2♦
3NT

Now I must bid 4♠ ?

ty
jb

Hi,

you could pass 3NT, because your spades are
solid, in case partner holds a singleton, the
spades will run with more than 50% probabilty,
you hold the 10 of spades, change your spades
to AQJxxx and you should run, because partner will
have trouble getting the spades to run.

Personnaly I would bid 4S, it is a tick safer, and you show
add. strength giving partner the chance to move on, in case
he holds magic cards with 2 spades, not likely, but still an option.

Marlowe

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Al_U_Card]

Since pard has denied a balanced hand, does anyone treat 3C over the 2C as a request for further info, or is it 100% passable? My pards who open light take this as forcing to 3NT, with 4C the other safe landing space (opener DOES have 6+ clubs for the rebid).