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Bidding responder major Advancer

#1 User is offline   paulsim 

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Posted 2024-June-11, 02:28

Hi all,

Assuming that overcalling 2 is natural:


What about theese:

1.-

With spades, I think you should double, but not everyone likes to penalty double on level 1 so, maybe double could just be responsive showing hearts and diamonds

So, could this be natural 5+? could it be just 4? anything else?


2.-

Would you take this 2 as natural or high/low cuebid?


Thank very much
Kind Regards,
Paul_S
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#2 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2024-June-11, 02:31

#1 nat.
#2 cue
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#3 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2024-June-11, 11:47

I think it fairly standard that after (1x) x (1S):

Double shows 4+ spades and enough values that you expect to beat 1S should tgey for some reason play there (maybe opener passes on Hx and partner had a light takeout double with 3 spades). It’s not that you’re expecting to defend…I’ve never yet seen it happen…but more that you’re conveying a message to partner about not just spades but also constructive values.

2S, otoh, shows a decent 5 card suit but denies overall constructive values. I’d bid 2S with KQ10xx and no other hcp but I wouldn’t double. I’d double with that (or a similar 4 card suit) with an outside Ace, to give you some idea of the distinction.

In your second scenario I think it’s a matter for partnership discussion, which may well involve some consideration of what 2C (opener’s bid suit) would mean. You have two cuebids and 2C, if not natural, is a lower cue.

In my regular partnerships, we play transfer advances if a 2 level cue of opener’s suit is available and so we’d always bid 2C with a good hand and fit. So for us, 2S would be natural, ususalky a decent 6 card suit but not forcing. Say you hold KJ108xx xx Kx xxx. Do you really want to pass 1S?
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#4 User is online   DavidKok 

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Posted 2024-June-11, 14:48

I'm not sure if this comment belongs in this forum, but it is on topic so why not.

The approach described by mikeh was 'expert standard' for the longest time. The idea is that the double informs partner of the possible misfit, of a possible strain to play, and functions as a psyche expose. Some strong players near me have gravitated towards using the double as negative instead. I think this is due to three reasons:
  • These days we double on nothing and everything. Partner's double can be, and on this auction often is, hot piping garbage. That makes it very risky to announce to the world that this is a likely misfit deal - partner's double may not have many spades (3 is common) or points (10-11 happens regularly) or playing strength (balanced is more frequent than anything else), suggesting that 'pass' is fine with many hands with spades here.
  • People don't really psych anymore, so there is little need to be able to expose them.
  • As mikeh mentioned the double normally does not expect to defend, and in fact it is not that common that it gains after coming up. Meanwhile showing four hearts, a negative double, is often valuable. Based on frequency and size of expected swings showing the other major takes priority.
That being said I think both styles see play, and I've had a few mishaps where partner and I assumed different styles without discussing it first. But I definitely don't think either approach is a safe assumption.
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#5 User is offline   bluenikki 

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Posted 2024-June-11, 16:18

View PostDavidKok, on 2024-June-11, 14:48, said:

[*]People don't really psych anymore, so there is little need to be able to expose them.

That's only true in the sense that they don't think 5432 is a psych.
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