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Jacoby

#1 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2024-March-28, 18:39

Try writing a one word reply, editing it, then typing your message. The forum is broken, sadly.
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#2 User is offline   olfil 

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Posted 2024-March-29, 00:26

I'm a beginner. I’m trying to learn/understand Jacoby transfers. I gather that there are many variations of this sub-system.
I’ve been playing as follows:
Dealer opens 1NT. Partner has five spades and 10 HCP and bids 3 spades. If dealer has 3 spades he bids 4 spades. Otherwise he bids 3NT.
If playing Jacoby, should partner then instead respond to 1NT with 2H and dealer then respond with 2S? If so, can anyone please tell me how the partnership would proceed from there to achieve the same [or a better] outcome as/than the one above
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#3 User is offline   olfil 

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Posted 2024-March-29, 00:28

Thank you smerriman
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#4 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2024-March-29, 01:16

There are a lot of websites that go into depth on how transfers work if you Google for them, so for a comprehensive source you're probably better off looking through one and then following up here if you have any questions.

But as a basic overview.. it has been a long time since I learnt how to bid without transfers that I've forgotten most about how it works, but I believe your standard would have been:

- 2 level bids are weak hands (other than Stayman)
- 3 level bids are game forcing

At the sole cost of not being able to stop in 2, with transfers you can still do both of the above:

- weak hands transfer to a major, then pass. This has a side benefit that now the 1NT hand is declarer instead of dummy, which makes it harder for the defenders to know where all of the high cards are.
- hands that want to opener to choose between 3N and 4M can transfer and then bid 3N; opener can either pass or bid 4M if they have support.

But the main benefit of transfers is that since you know opener is forced to bid the suit you're transferring to, you don't have to describe your hand in a single bid - you open up possibilities for countless other auctions that you didn't have before. For example:

- transfer to a major then bid 2NT to show 5 cards in that major and invitational values (8-9 points) - so opener can choose between 2N / 3M / 3N / 4M depending on whether they're a minimum / whether they have support
- transfer to a major, then bid 3 or 4 of that major yourself, to show invitational or game values with a 6 card suit (some play the latter differently depending on other sequences)
- transfer to one major, then bid the other - this show 5 cards in both majors, either with an invitational hand (if you choose the cheaper option - transferring to hearts and bidding 2) or a game forcing hand (if you transfer to spades and then bid 3), so opener can pick the best one.
- transfer to a major then bid 3 of a minor to show a game-forcing unbalanced hand with a second suit, with followups allowing you to decide whether 3NT / 4M / 5m or even slam is the best contract

On top of that (and there's some options after transferring that I didn't mention), now that you're no longer using 2 or 3 level bids anymore, you can use those to show various other hand types as well (and this is where things vary quite a bit from one player to another) - let alone 4 level bids, which are sometimes also played as transfers with 6 card suits.

As you can see there's a lot more to it than not playing transfers.. but the benefits are enormous.
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#5 User is offline   olfil 

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Posted 2024-March-29, 06:02

Thanks Merriman for your prompt and detailed reply. I'll now spend the next week studying it.
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#6 User is offline   olfil 

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Posted 2024-March-30, 19:16

Thanks again Smerriman. I now understand. What you wrote was clearer than all the websites I've seen so far
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#7 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2024-April-03, 15:51

View Postsmerriman, on 2024-March-29, 01:16, said:

- transfer to a major, then bid 3 or 4 of that major yourself, to show invitational or game values with a 6 card suit (some play the latter differently depending on other sequences)
- transfer to one major, then bid the other - this show 5 cards in both majors, either with an invitational hand (if you choose the cheaper option - transferring to hearts and bidding 2) or a game forcing hand (if you transfer to spades and then bid 3), so opener can pick the best one.


I quote everything smerriman said, but as a warning going forwards, even these two are not universally agreed, as he hinted.

A rebid of 4 in the major always shows game values (doh) but you could have done the same with a 4 level transfer, and so for many of us it is also a mild slam invite. Some top level Italians play it the other way round, but we are still waiting for the explanation of that.

A transfer to one major then bid the other is more of a minefield. It's logical that if you transfer to hearts and then bid spades it should show 5-4 INV, but if you play a 4 card Stayman with Crawling then probably transfer to spades and then bid hearts should show 5-5 GF (5-4 INV would go through Stayman and show precisely that hand by rebidding 2 over 2). If that gives you a headache then you have my sympathy :)
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#8 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2024-April-10, 21:59

My favorite way to play (5-4) majors invitational is to transfer to the five card suit and then bid the four card suit. For those who complain that one or both those sequences should show 5-5 in the suits, I have a direct 3 for 5-5 majors invitational or better. Of course, now somebody will claim "but that has to show the minors!" No, it doesn't. I have other ways to do that. :-)
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#9 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2024-April-11, 15:45

View Postblackshoe, on 2024-April-10, 21:59, said:

My favorite way to play (5-4) majors invitational is to transfer to the five card suit and then bid the four card suit. For those who complain that one or both those sequences should show 5-5 in the suits, I have a direct 3 for 5-5 majors invitational or better. Of course, now somebody will claim "but that has to show the minors!" No, it doesn't. I have other ways to do that. :-)


I would be curious to know how you show minors 5-5 INV, 5-5 GF, 5-4 GF. Most of us use the 3 level for that.
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#10 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2024-April-13, 19:25

Why the F does this stupid website keep telling me there's a posting problem?!

55 GF: 1NT-2 (Range ask or ...)-2NT/3-3 asks for a four card minor and is GF with some slam interest.
(54) GF: 1NT-3M shows 3 cards in the major, singleton in the other major, (54) in the minors, GF, no slam interest.
55 Inv: 1NT-2--2NT/3-pass/3NT. Not ideal, but…

I have found that when I do get the posting problem thing, I can post a one liner, and then paste my actual response into it with no problem. Stupid software. Maybe it's a caching problem. I'll go delete that stuff. Again.
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#11 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2024-April-13, 22:28

View Postblackshoe, on 2024-April-13, 19:25, said:

Why the F does this stupid website keep telling me there's a posting problem?!

here
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#12 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2024-April-14, 03:35

As smerriman explains, transfers allow responder to bid strong hands more accurately.

Consider this natural auction (if you are not playing transfers):
1NT-3
3NT-4

4 would show a slammish hand with 5-5 in spades and diamonds. Or maybe just four diamonds. Or maybe 6-4. So you can't end in 3nt if opener has a minimum with most of their points in hearts and clubs. Also, there is no way for responder to show a one-suited hand with spades and a control in diamonds. And if either partner subsequently bids 4NT it's probably blackwood, but sometimes it would be nice to bid 4nt as an offer to play 4nt.

Playing transfers you have more options. A basic scheme will include something like:
1NT-2
2-3 - now opener has already denied four spades (since they bid only 2) so if they bid 3 now they show a good hand with exactly three spades. Alternatively, opener can show values in both unbid suits and no spade support by bidding 3NT, or they can bid 3 to show a heart stopper and no spade support. Or 4 to show a bad hand with three spades. Or 4 to show a double fit.
1NT-2
2-4 - this is a one-suited hand with a singleton diamonds
1NT-2
2-4 - this is mild slam interest with six spades and no singleton
1NT-2
2-4nt - this is quantitative, 16 points with a 5332 shape
1NT-4
4 - now responder can pass without slam interest, or bid 4NT to ask for keycards
1NT-3 - this is a serious slam try without a singleton, opener must show their cheapest control

I would say that technically, you don't need transfers so badly. The hands where transfers work substantially better than natural methods don't come up so often. The main reason for playing transfers is that everybody plays it.

Also, before you put a lot of energy into discussing the finer details of transfers, you should first of all make sure that you and partner have a common understanding about in what situations transfers apply. Which of the following diamonds bids show hearts, and which are natural?

(1)-1NT-(pass) 2

1NT-(x)-2

1NT-(2)-2

2-(2)-pass-(pass)
2NT-(pass)-3

2-2
3nt-4
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#13 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2024-April-14, 11:04

For me none of those diamonds bids are natural, all but the 2D response to 2C opening show hearts.
With one partner, the meaning after 2C interference depends upon the meaning of 2C (which is more efficient but also a potential legal hassle).
But yes, one should discuss these things.
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#14 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2024-April-19, 07:28

View Postsmerriman, on 2024-March-29, 01:16, said:

- transfer to one major, then bid the other - this show 5 cards in both majors, either with an invitational hand (if you choose the cheaper option - transferring to hearts and bidding 2) or a game forcing hand (if you transfer to spades and then bid 3), so opener can pick the best one.


I've not come across that method although it makes sense. In the past I've played that transfer to 2 followed by 2 is invitational 5-4, transfer to 2 then 3 is 5-4 GF, transfer to 2 then 4 is 5-5 choose a game. You can show the 5M-4M GF hands through Stayman so I like the idea of transferring to one followed by bidding the other as 5-5 GI or GF.
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