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A natural auction

#1 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2023-September-12, 10:33

MP



Thought I had to share this one, partly for your views about how TD should proceed if called but largely for your amusement and any insights you may have about the peculiar auction.

I am sitting N with a decent but first time partner. EW are two old ladies who I have met before, extracting any explanation of their strong club system was near impossible. This time I'm a guest in their club and there is no certified TD, so I'm not making any waves. E fails to announce the range of 1NT, but that seems to be normal here. W bids 2 in tempo (no announcement or alert) and E raises to 4 without batting an eyelid, all pass.

Very strange. I guess they are having a transfer mishap whatever Declarer is up to, so I lead a heart and they make +1. Would I have found the A lead with correct information (whatever that is)? I honestly don't know, but say I called you after play and claimed I would B-)
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2023-September-12, 12:22

Unless the non-alertable meaning of 2 is spades, I can't see there is any infraction.

Last week I had a similar auction with a pick-up partner, we hadn't discussed whether transfers apply after they double 1NT, fortunately partner had 5-5 in the majors so it didn't matter how I took her 2 bid.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#3 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2023-September-12, 15:21

View Posthelene_t, on 2023-September-12, 12:22, said:

Last week I had a similar auction with a pick-up partner, we hadn't discussed whether transfers apply after they double 1NT, fortunately partner had 5-5 in the majors so it didn't matter how I took her 2 bid.

OK, but find it hard to believe you opened 1NT with a hand like this one :blink:
I can only guess if it was a mechanical error, a system problem or a psyche undecided between game and hope to punish.
Responder's spades transfer (if that is what it was) is much more understandable I agree, although with decent Stayman agreements she could do better (unless she thought this was worth a game force).


View Posthelene_t, on 2023-September-12, 12:22, said:

Unless the non-alertable meaning of 2 is spades, I can't see there is any infraction.

Not announcing the agreed range of 1NT is an infraction by national rules, as is a gross deviation from the agreed range. So is not announcing a transfer.
If I have to guess, the agreements are 15-17 (with at most a 4cM) and transfer.
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#4 User is offline   sanst 

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Posted 2023-September-13, 02:42

Sorry, this is going to be very politically incorrect. So stop reading if you donít want to be shocked by my prejudices.

My gut feeling is that these players have no system at all. They just bid something and they know each other for such a long time that they communicate by manners and mannerisms which they wordlessly understand.
I sometimes meet such pairs at the table and Iíve found that itís best just to ignore all thatís going on. You know that youíre being cheated but these opponents would be deeply insulted if you call the director, because in their world thatís equal to being accused of cheating.
Just play the boards, wish them a nice afternoon or evening and never return to this club.
Joost
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#5 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2023-September-13, 09:22

View Postsanst, on 2023-September-13, 02:42, said:

My gut feeling is that these players have no system at all. They just bid something and they know each other for such a long time that they communicate by manners and mannerisms which they wordlessly understand.
I sometimes meet such pairs at the table and Iíve found that itís best just to ignore all thatís going on. You know that youíre being cheated but these opponents would be deeply insulted if you call the director, because in their world thatís equal to being accused of cheating.
Just play the boards, wish them a nice afternoon or evening and never return to this club.


Unfortunately every club seems to have one or two pairs like that, although usually they won't play the most competitive tournament. The other pairs were reasonably well behaved and the overall level was surprisingly high, so I don't exclude returning, just know who to watch out for.
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#6 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2023-September-14, 17:48

There are also lots of players who just have no idea how to bid. Sometimes they get lucky, like this one. But usually it works against them. It's annoying when you get fixed by them, but that's just the luck of the game.

There's not really anything you can do about this as a TD. They probably also don't have a CC, but what would you expect them to put on it when they don't really have "agreements"?

If they're club regulars, everyone else has just gotten used to it. When in Rome....

#7 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2023-September-14, 21:16

When in Rome, fiddle. :-)
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As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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