[nullve]

---

[mw64ahw]

I'd be happy with 1NT or a Power X depending on who I'm playing with given the possibility of 2 ♠ tricks or Aces sitting to my right.

[mycroft]

I'd like to bid 1NT. I pass, though.

Pros:

• We Three Kings to protect. But most of them are already protected by the opening bid.
  
• If points are pretty much balanced, we've won "the race to 1NT".

Cons:

• If LHO doubles, we likely have 2-3 tricks.
  
• If partner has a good 8 or so, maybe 9, and without 4 hearts, we're in 3NT. Now, my hand is worth about 4 tricks, maybe 5. And that's if partner's cards are either fillers or entries - quick entries, before righty runs 4-spades-anna-trick.

1NT overcalls are "good 15 to" for a reason. This 14 isn't a good 15, even if I might upgrade it into "15-17" NT to protect.

Lying about the Power Double is maybe not as bad, as the "bad result" (partner passing) isn't going to happen. OTOH, we at least will bid a game-forcing 2♠ with basically any 8 (because we know where the points are), and again, without 4 hearts, it'll lead to 3NT. I've learned that the Power Double, like all nebulous strong calls, is a necessary evil, not a bid I want to make. I'm certainly not looking to upgrade hands into it.

[mikeh]

Pass

Clear cut even though (obviously) there will be hands where some action works better.

1N is silly, imo. We lack even a semblance of a second spade stopper, and we are understrength as well. 1N has few ways to win and several ways to lose, some of them being very big losses.

On my return to club bridge I’ve noticed that many weak players seem to think that it’s some kind of bridge crime to pass if one has opening points, no matter what one’s hand is nor what the auction is. Perhaps that explains my 67% average over a recent 12 game stretch, lol. We certainly scored more than our share of +200 v air or +800 or higher.

Anyway, when the opps are kind enough to tell us that we don’t have a bid, it’s rude (and usually wrong) to ignore them.

Addition: double is for players who hate their partners.

[AL78]

mikeh, on 2023-August-04, 14:44, said:

On my return to club bridge I’ve noticed that many weak players seem to think that it’s some kind of bridge crime to pass if one has opening points, no matter what one’s hand is nor what the auction is.

You sound like you've played at my club, home of the I-must-not-defend society. People do this all the time against me, unfortunately I either lack the skill/judgement or the cards lie to make the unsound action work quite frequently so getting duffed up is par for the course.

[nullve]

This was board 24 in the fourth quarter of the 2023 Spingold final. As you can see, both Bessis and Nyström doubled.

vugraphzfc said:

I think Nystrom said "I have a Turkish takeout double" [4 spades]

[Cyberyeti]

nullve, on 2023-August-05, 13:46, said:

This was board 24 in the fourth quarter of the 2023 Spingold final. As you can see, both Bessis and Nyström doubled.

Have I missed something, didn't Bessis do something double dummy hopeless at the end ? if instead of ruffing the diamond in dummy, he ruffs it high in hand and plays the small trump to dummy for the rest

Actually from the -1 result on the scoreboard it appears he may have done this

[mikeh]

nullve, on 2023-August-05, 13:46, said:

This was board 24 in the fourth quarter of the 2023 Spingold final. As you can see, both Bessis and Nyström doubled.

World class players, playing with a world class partner in an established partnership, can take off-kilter actions, if consistent with partnership style, and hope to survive. That doesn’t make a takeout double a sensible action for 99.9% of the bridge world.

Moreover, the comment about a Turkish double suggests to me that Nystrom knew that he was making a questionable call.

I’ve read enough descriptions of high level bridge (I think I’ve read TBW descriptions of every major NA KO event, and every WC, since at least the mid 1970s) that I think that it’s fair to say that most top players occasionally do something unorthodox. More often than not a loss results, but bridge is a game of probabilities and thus off beat actions quite often produce good results.

The fact that one can mine WC and other major events and produce occasional oddities doesn’t change the fact that doubling 1S with a 4=4=3=2 14 count is a bit strange. The problem with presenting these hands as a ‘problem’ and then showing that two world class players took off-kilter actions is that players not blessed with world class partners may come to think that this sort of double is a good idea.

Change south’s shape to 2=3=4=4 (does anybody seriously think that any simulation would make it more likely than not that south has 4+ hearts?) and I suspect nullve would not have posted the hand, lol.

[nullve]

mikeh, on 2023-August-06, 11:57, said:

Change south’s shape to 2=3=4=4 (does anybody seriously think that any simulation would make it more likely than not that south has 4+ hearts?) and I suspect nullve would not have posted the hand, lol.

Oh, I would.

What makes the deal interesting to me is that both players doubled, suggesting some sort of new consensus.

[pescetom]

nullve, on 2023-August-06, 15:03, said:

What makes the deal interesting to me is that both players doubled, suggesting some sort of new consensus.

I have one partner who compulsively doubles on this kind of hand even though I resolutely refuse to take account. He's been pulling this stunt for decades and would grin if told it was the new consensus.

[johnu]

mikeh, on 2023-August-06, 11:57, said:

Moreover, the comment about a Turkish double suggests to me that Nystrom knew that he was making a questionable call.

I don't know anything about bridge in Turkey (or Turkiye) but maybe it's standard in that country to make takeout doubles with that shape hand. Anybody know?

IIRC, in bidding polls, doubling on flat hands with 3-4 card length in opponents suits is popular.

[mikeh]

johnu, on 2023-August-06, 16:30, said:

I don't know anything about bridge in Turkey (or Turkiye) but maybe it's standard in that country to make takeout doubles with that shape hand. Anybody know?

IIRC, in bidding polls, doubling on flat hands with 3-4 card length in opponents suits is popular.

Back when I learned to play, it was considered normal to pass with, say, 4=4=3=2 12 count after a 1D opening. That’s long become history…few good players would pass that shape these days. And 4333 sound opening hands double routinely with 3 cards in opener’s suit, especially if the 4 card suit is a major

But I definitely haven’t seen a strong trend towards a minimum opening hand (and 14 is within the normal ‘minimum range’) doubling with 4432 where one of the 4 card suits is the one bid by opener. My own view is that it’s unsound, but I’ve never reached the finals of any major event, so I’m not sure what my views are worth.

The old Blue Team often made off shape doubles and survived but there is good reason the believe that they were somehow illegally conveying information, allowing them to avoid getting into trouble…some of the examples posted in various BridgeWinner’s threads are remarkable indeed. Thus offshape doubles are not usually played by good pairs these days.