[DavidKok]

I want to share a fun hand from last night's matchpoint game in multiple steps, covering the bidding first and the play second.

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Your call?

[apollo1201]

The hog bidding is at 3NT

A softer approach could be 3H, and then bidding 3NT above a 3S advance.

At least that keeps the option open to reach 4H, 3NT or leave things at 3H before things start to get ugly.

So despite the light-ish suit, I’d go for 3H. Not really sure I want to pass with that strength although it could be the winning call on some layouts. But it would need partner to balance, and I can make a contract on some hands partner won’t balance with (5413 with 8-9 pts, eg).

[LBengtsson]

Not easy, I agree, David. My call 3♥. Partner is likely to have some ruffing values in ♦ suit, but so is LHO. I do not want to rule out a ♥ game: suit is not the best but I have extras. Bidding 3NT instead of 3♥ will probably mean that we will never find a 9 card ♥ fit, if it exists.

[AL78]

Put me down for 3♥ despite the flimsy suit. I do not want to pass with these values and 3NT is too committing.

[Cyberyeti]

At the table my style is to bid 3N with these, the issue is that you are a bit strong in high cards for 3♥, 3N at least gives partner something to work with for range. I'm reasonably comfortable with either bid.

[TMorris]

3nt also for me if it is at all reasonable although I could live with 3 ♥ of course.

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-July-07, 04:19, said:

At the table my style is to bid 3N with these, the issue is that you are a bit strong in high cards for 3♥, 3N at least gives partner something to work with for range. I'm reasonably comfortable with either bid.

This hand is close to maximum in hcp for a 3 level overcall, but far from being a ‘bit strong’ in my opinion. Move a small diamond into the heart suit and, with a hand now a full trick stronger, it’s still a 3H bid for me.

As for my choice, I rule out pass. I’d consider, but likely reject, pass at favourable.

I think it very close between 3H and 3N. The factor that, as I write this, tips the scales in favour of 3H is that I need partner to hold decent values for either to work. With decent values and some fit, he’ll be able to raise 3H to 4H. With decent values but no fit he may bid 3S, letting me back into 3N.

And I can probably make 4H opposite a weaker hand (but with long hearts) when 3N falls. He’ll raise me with, say, Axx Q10xx x xxxxx where a spade lead beats 3N.

Meanwhile, if it’s LHO with the second best hand, and partner has a bad hand, we may escape disaster in 3H when west has an easy double of 3N.

[thepossum]

Pass?

[DavidKok]

At the table I chose 3♥, mostly for the reasons posters here already pointed out. In no particular order:

• If partner has a weak hand we might scramble home in 3♥, while 3NT is unlikely to go well.
  
• We can still get to 3NT when it is right if partner can bid 3♠ over 3♥. Meanwhile if partner doesn't have spades 3NT probably won't do very well. The losing case where partner holds approximately a 4=2=1=6 might not play well at any rate, plus we're under pressure so having some losing cases is inevitable.
  
• The hand is very suit-oriented, all aces and kings.

The bidding resumed

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At higher level it is somewhat popular to use 4♣ as the good hearts raise with 4♦ showing clubs. Unfortunately we did not play that gadget. Your call?

[LBengtsson]

You are control rich despite the 5422 shape. This hand looks more like a 17-18 count than 16. 4♥ just signs off. It's RKCB for me with 4NT, holding 3 RKCB controls yourself, you need to find out if partner has the other two plus the ♥Q. You can still stop in 5♥ which still may be too high, but you do not win tournaments by not taking chances.

[mikeh]

I’m not a big fan of keycard when I can’t tell what to do after a plausible response. 4D shouldn’t promise a control, although he rates to have one…but these days people routinely open 3D on six, so partner could well have a doubleton. 4D isn’t a slam try, as such…it’s merely the stronger of two ways to raise hearts.

Could I have a hand worth 5C lacking control not only in spades (which I deny by bypassing) and in diamonds? I don’t think it’s possible to construct such a hand…well, I could but only by making my hearts much stronger and I’m assuming partner knows I don’t have great hearts, because he’s looking at at least a high honour.

But I’ve learned, over the years, that claiming that 5C has to imply a diamond control might sound good in the post-mortem but rarely pays off at the table

Also, I can’t construct a 4D bid without a spade control….well maybe QJxx KQxx x Qxxx? Or more plausibly same type of hand with a void diamond

So I’m doing what I rant against…I keycard off two losers in an bid suit. I play kickback, so 4S it is, but 4N for non kickback users.

One further issue is what to do opposite a 2 with the queen response. I have my thoughts but will wait to see what happens.

[LBengtsson]

mikeh, on 2023-July-08, 10:02, said:

So I’m doing what I rant against…I keycard off two losers in an bid suit. I play kickback, so 4S it is, but 4N for non kickback users.

One further issue is what to do opposite a 2 with the queen response. I have my thoughts but will wait to see what happens.

Exactly what I was thinking also, when I made my comment. You can be greedy/brave and bid the grand, but I will be happy to bid the small slam after the opps. have opened a pre-empt at the three level.

[pescetom]

DavidKok, on 2023-July-08, 02:15, said:

At higher level it is somewhat popular to use 4♣ as the good hearts raise with 4♦ showing clubs.

To leave room for a diamonds control-bid, or something else?

DavidKok, on 2023-July-08, 02:15, said:

Your call?

For me 5♣ [Edit: was erroneously written 5♦ ] is automatic after the 4♦ artificial raise. It shows clubs control, denies spades control (as mikeh says, 4♦ made that very likely) and (as we play) even keycards.

[DavidKok]

At the table I chose 5♣. We have a maximum but lack a spade control, and I'm not sure what to do over a 1 response or 2 response to RKC. We did not have any agreements, but I expected this to deny a spade control, show a club control and neither promise nor deny a diamond control (partner can ask with 5♦ last train). I also thought partner had a better picture of our hand (maximum 3♥ overcall) than we had of partner's hand, so I was hesitant to take control.

pescetom, on 2023-July-08, 15:12, said:

For me 5♦ is automatic after the 4♦ artificial raise. It shows diamonds control, denies spades control (as mikeh says, 4♦ made that very likely) and (as we play) even keycards.

You have three key cards.

The idea behind swapping 4♣ and 4♦ is that the 3♥ overcaller can bid 4♦ last train. The primary goal is not to determine whether we have their suit stopped, but whether we have the playing strength for slam.

Over my 5♣ partner jumped to 6♥, which I passed.

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West lead the ♦6, the first trick going ♦6-7-10-?. They lead 1st/3rd/5th with UDCA signaling. What is your plan for the play?

[pescetom]

>> At the table I chose 5♣.
So did I, diamonds was an editing error.

>> You have three key cards.
That's why I made a bid that denies even keycards, as said.

>> The idea behind swapping 4♣ and 4♦ is that the 3♥ overcaller can bid 4♦ last train.
Thanks.

>> What is your plan for the play?
At the table I would probably just take with A, play off the black AKs ending in N and then take my chances in cross ruffs bearing in mind the diamonds situation. But I imagine there's more to it than that.

[mikeh]

We hope that the black AK’s cash, giving us 5 tricks outside of trump. We need 7 more, which we hope to score by ruffing diamonds in dummy and eloping with some small trump in hand.

We don’t want west pitching his shorter black suit before we start the crossruff, since he may overruff and return a trump at an inconvenient moment.

So AK of spades, AK of clubs….we want to be in hand after cashing the side winners, so that we can now lead a diamond

We need to guess the black suit shape. So exactly how I continue depends on how I read the carding, given that good opps won’t be signalling length (I love honest count givers and, so long as I know their style, constant false carders…the best defence on these hands is to just play up the line all the time, giving nothing away…your partner can’t possibly care).

I’d likely ruff a club back to hand, simply because that’s our shorter black suit.

If that survives, ruff a diamond…overruffing if necessary

Again, what we do depends on what they do, but if they let me ruff three diamonds, I only need 4 trump in hand and the trump suit offers interesting possibilities, especially if east has a stiff 9 or 10.

Even planning to ruff a club back to hand is contingent, so I’ll stop here to await word.

Btw, an attractive alternative is to cash one trump in dummy before embarking on the above line…that way east can’t disrupt us if he has say 1=1=7=4 or the like but I think that unlikely and I think the stiff has to be the 9 or 10 in order that I can still ruff two diamonds in dummy, should west have a stiff….with 109xx he ruffs in with the 9, and next time the 10, winning, to lead his last trump.

Since stiff 9 or 10 in east sets the stage for a possible endplay in trump against west, I think the early cash isn’t a good idea but I thought I’d mention it. After formulating a tentative plan, I try to look for ways it could fail and alternative lines that might avoid that issue…hopefully without risking others just as bad or worse.

[DavidKok]

I reasoned along the same lines, but was worried about entries to the hand if I wanted to try to ruff three diamonds. Since, as you said, it is a bit of a guess whether to ruff a club or a spade after cashing both black aces and kings and ruffing a diamond, I instead opted to ruff a diamond immediately, paying up if West has 1 diamond and 2 clubs (and therefore 10 cards in the majors). So small diamond, West pitching a club, then cash ace and king of clubs (ace and king of spades first is better in case West has a 2=5=1=5 and failed to pitch a spade) felling West's queen, then another diamond (West pitching a spade).
At this point I could have cashed a high heart to cater to hearts being 4-1 and spades 5-1 (cash spade AK, cross with a spade ruff, ruff one more diamond, ruff another spade and force West to ruff our losing diamond), going down on the actual layout, but probably with the odds. Instead I blindly cashed ace and king of spades (both holding, meaning we are home), ruffed a spade with East showing out, another diamond ruffed (West underruffing with the ♥2) and a spade ruffed low for the endplay.

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I'm still not sure what the best line is single dummy. I think we can cater to some unfortunate breaks in the black suits if we can read the hearts, but the timing is difficult. If we start by cashing spade AK, then club AK, then diamond up (West pitching a spade, perhaps) and ruffed and a spade ruff back, followed by a diamond up (club pitched) and ruffed we get a difficult endplay diagram:

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with the x'es being unsure (in fact, hearts might be 3-2 with West having two remaining clubs for all we know) and North on lead.

If we read West to have all five hearts we need to ruff any card high and play a diamond up. If we read West to have four hearts and a club we need to draw a heart, then ruff a club low and play a diamond up. If East's singleton heart is the T or 9 we get even more options, I think.

[Evies Dad]

If E has 7 diamonds isn't it more likely that they are short in one of the black suit than short in hearts or 7222 ?
But it is still the best line available.

I appreciate that setting up dummies spades is not a good plan because you can't get back to them.

[DavidKok]

We've got 8 hearts, but only 7 spades and 6 clubs. Without any other information hearts is favourite to be East's shortest suit, but not by a lot. The 3♦ opening reduces the chance of major suit length even further.

Since we need to score a number of diamond ruffs in dummy we can pull at most one round of trumps anyway, and to get to 12 tricks we need most of the black suit honours to cash. While we can make despite clubs splitting poorly (e.g. giving East a 3=2=7=1 and West a 3=3=1=6, where we can cash two spades, ruff one, draw trumps in three rounds ending in dummy and pitch diamonds on two good spades) I think it is anti-percentage. It seems safer to try to ruff three diamonds and elope with the trumps in hand, somehow.

[thepossum]

Is this thread still going. Keen to know how my pass worked out