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Gilithin, on 2023-June-20, 08:48, said:
You bid 2NT (or 2♠) to get the hand out quickly rather than forcing to the 3 level with a second double. And if not prepared to play in 3♥, passing the second time around rather than doubling again makes more sense. It is quite a common theme in chapters on competitive bidding for writers to note that this specific auction (1X - 2Y) a particularly dangerous one is to get involved with and you already made most of the points as to why that might be so. It does vary a little by system - in Acol a pair might only have 18 rather than the 22 S+5 pairs might expect - but the principle of getting in and out as fast as possible remains for all of them, which is the main reason I mentioned 2♠/2NT as an alternative to doubling twice. If you disagree with this general principle, rather than just dismissing it for this particular hand, that might make for an interesting discussion.
I confess to having little experience with this sequence, since virtually nobody in my area plays 2C as not promising a rebid…virtually everyone plays it as gf.
Thus, for me, the double of 2D already suggested a takeout based on shape rather than values and the second double simply shows some extra strength….not much and based on shape rather than hcp…if we have any, it’s not by much on this hand, but at mps it seems timid to pass 2S, and I’d expect partner to understand that.
As for the initial double, I think 2N is not a good choice.
Why?
Because, as I said above, the double shows a two suited hand of about this shape….even if I had a stronger hand, all that means (in the absence of a psyche) is that advancer is that much weaker, so it balances out.
Meanwhile, it’s quite common for opener to pass the double. Sure, common is not the same as ‘always’ or ‘almost always’ but it’s definitely something we can hope to happen. In that case, advancer can bid 2H or with an unusual well-fitting hand, jump to 3H. 2N does tend to preempt opener a bit (although if he starts with double we probably won’t like the end result) but it also and more importantly preempts partner.
I simply don’t understand what gain there is from using 2N rather than double.
The usual discussion about 2N is after an auction such as (1S) P (2S) where having 2N for all two suiters, rather than just minors, has significant benefits over any alternative, but that’s not the least bit the same as the sequence under discussion.
Note that one will rarely get a chance to double again (or to bid 2N) since it’s very strange, to NA eyes, for opener to bid 2S on 5 and responder to pass. Maybe it’s common in Acol land, but (thankfully, since I think Acol is a theoretically flawed method…and, yes, I have played it and have read books on it) it’s definitely weird to see this auction over here.
Thus I think it foolish to expect that we need to take two takeout calls.
Our second one doesn’t show extras…but it is at least 5-5 while the first might arguably have been 4=5 (I doubt that anyone would espouse 2N on some 4=5 hand).