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Percentages of Opening Bids in Different Systems

#1 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2022-September-21, 20:46

Percentages of Opening Bids in Different Systems
I seem to remember seeing this somewhere but can't remember.
It was a comparison of the percentage you opened the bidding with each bid in different systems.
Anyone seen this?
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#2 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2022-September-21, 21:16

View Poststeve2005, on 2022-September-21, 20:46, said:

Percentages of Opening Bids in Different Systems
I seem to remember seeing this somewhere but can't remember.
It was a comparison of the percentage you opened the bidding with each bid in different systems.
Anyone seen this?

Is this the analysis you are thinking of?

http://www.clairebri..._collection.pdf
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#3 User is online   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-September-22, 02:03

View Postsfi, on 2022-September-21, 21:16, said:

Is this the analysis you are thinking of?

http://www.clairebri..._collection.pdf


Interesting, he says that in Australian standard (whatever that is) 1C = 3+ and 1D = 4+ which leaves us in a pickle with 4432.

non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek.
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#4 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2022-September-22, 03:20

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-September-22, 02:03, said:


Interesting, he says that in Australian standard (whatever that is) 1C = 3+ and 1D = 4+ which leaves us in a pickle with 4432.



1 is 4+ only the spade is 5 so 1 with 4432

The version of Acol is the one I was taught by my grandfather in the early 70s, but one I haven't seen since
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#5 User is online   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-September-22, 04:31

Missed that - I stopped too soon.Acol isn't part of "Standard Australian" - almost everyone uses 5CM.
Maybe this explains why so many Australians play "short club" - opening 1 with 4432.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek.
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2022-September-22, 04:33

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-September-22, 04:31, said:

Acol isn't part of "Standard Australian" - almost everyone uses 5CM.
Maybe this explains why so many Australians play "short club" - opening 1 with 4432.


I never said it was, hence why the two bits were separate paragraphs, his write up of standard Australian says 4 card heart (maybe that's as out of date as the version of Acol he gives)
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#7 User is offline   michel444 

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Posted 2022-September-22, 07:03

View Postsfi, on 2022-September-21, 21:16, said:

Is this the analysis you are thinking of?

http://www.clairebri..._collection.pdf

tHANK YOU !
VERY INTERSTING AN lONG DOCUMENT
I understand the question in a diferent maner .

in "normal" system you pass 55% of the time you are dealer it can be more or less
the average for 1minor is greater the 1 major who is greater then a 15-17 NT
2c is so rare that when it hapen I asking myself if it is real
yesterday at acol club partner open 2c i anser 2d with 5 to the King (K xxx x) and 2 Black Quenn
partner rebid 2 with 4 balanced hand and 25 point
i bid 3 and he close at 4
I think he ask how many time i open 1 club 1 diamond 1 1 1 NT ... in a system

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#8 User is offline   michel444 

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Posted 2022-September-22, 09:21

found 1 for Moscito

Pass 40.98%
1♣15.60% Strong, artificial, and forcing
1♦11.79%4+ Hearts, could have longer minor~ 9 - 14 HCP
1♥10.71%4+ Spades, could have longer minor~ 9 - 14 HCP
1♠3.89%4+ Diamonds, unbalanced hand, could have longer clubs~ 9 - 14 HCP
1N 6.81% 12 - 14 HCP balanced


other opening have under 3%

2♣1.48%6+ Clubs, ~ 9 - 14 HCP
2♦ 2.55% Mini-Multi, 6+ Hearts or 6+ Spades
2♥ 2.52% 5+ Hearts, undisciplined~ 5 - 10 HCP
2♠ 2.55% 5+ Spades, undisciplined~ 5 - 10 HCP
2N0.64%Bad three level preempt in either minor
3♣ 0.43% Natural and constructive preempt
Promises two of the top three honors
3♦0.43%
Natural and constructive preempt
Promises two of the top three honors
3♥0.79%
Natural
3♠0.77%Natural
3N0.11%
Four level preempt in either minor
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#9 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2022-September-22, 15:26

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-September-22, 04:31, said:

Maybe this explains why so many Australians play "short club" - opening 1 with 4432.

I suspect that is simply common sense in action, the presumed advantages of opening 1 instead are far from clear.
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#10 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2022-September-22, 17:25

View Postsfi, on 2022-September-21, 21:16, said:

Is this the analysis you are thinking of?

http://www.clairebri..._collection.pdf


Thx for the article

Am on the hunt for the world's best system - that means simplest and most effective
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#11 User is offline   michel444 

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Posted 2022-September-22, 23:39

View Postthepossum, on 2022-September-22, 17:25, said:

Thx for the article

Am on the hunt for the world's best system - that means simplest and most effective

I think EHHA
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#12 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2022-September-23, 18:18

View Postmichel444, on 2022-September-22, 09:21, said:

found 1 for Moscito

Pass 40.98%
1♣15.60% Strong, artificial, and forcing
1♦11.79%4+ Hearts, could have longer minor~ 9 - 14 HCP
1♥10.71%4+ Spades, could have longer minor~ 9 - 14 HCP
1♠3.89%4+ Diamonds, unbalanced hand, could have longer clubs~ 9 - 14 HCP
1N 6.81% 12 - 14 HCP balanced


other opening have under 3%

2♣1.48%6+ Clubs, ~ 9 - 14 HCP
2♦ 2.55% Mini-Multi, 6+ Hearts or 6+ Spades
2♥ 2.52% 5+ Hearts, undisciplined~ 5 - 10 HCP
2♠ 2.55% 5+ Spades, undisciplined~ 5 - 10 HCP
2N0.64%Bad three level preempt in either minor
3♣ 0.43% Natural and constructive preempt
Promises two of the top three honors
3♦0.43%
Natural and constructive preempt
Promises two of the top three honors
3♥0.79%
Natural
3♠0.77%Natural
3N0.11%
Four level preempt in either minor


This is what i was actually looking for.
looking for 2/1GF System and Precision to start
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#13 User is offline   michel444 

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Posted 2022-September-25, 14:03

the percentage of opening a bid is directly to the point range of the opening HCP
in NORMAL system you pass 70% of the time
no idea how it will show but i will copy 1 table per answer


opening bid point ranges:
0-12
13-20
21+

73.21
25.99
0.80
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#14 User is offline   michel444 

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Posted 2022-September-25, 14:05

opening bid point ranges:
0-10
11-15
16+


56.24
34.00
9.76
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#15 User is offline   michel444 

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Posted 2022-September-25, 14:11

opening bid point ranges:
0-9
10-14
15+


46.83
38.98
14.19


now you need to adjustthe other factor of the opening
in a forcing pass system not alowed by ACBL regulation when pass is 15+ HCP you pass only 14% of time 86% you open with a very weak opening or limited opening 38%
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#16 User is offline   michel444 

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Posted 2022-September-25, 14:16

opening bid point ranges:
0-7
8-12
13+


28.58
44.63
27.79


if the Forcing pass is 13+ you pass 27 % of time
make a limited opening 45 % of time
and a weak opening 28% of time some at level 1 other at level 2 and 3 and this is just the opopsit of sound biding !!!

Michel
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#17 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2022-September-27, 16:11

I think Daniel Neill covers frequency of opening bids in Standard Modern Precision.
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#18 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2022-September-27, 17:19

In a vacuum, you want to Pass with 35-40% of hands, bid 1 or higher with 35-40% of hands and open 1 with the rest. Unfortunately those pesky opponents sometimes like to butt in and this changes the percentages somewhat.
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#19 User is offline   michel444 

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Posted 2022-September-27, 19:32

View PostGilithin, on 2022-September-27, 17:19, said:

In a vacuum, you want to Pass with 35-40% of hands, bid 1 or higher with 35-40% of hands and open 1 with the rest. Unfortunately those pesky opponents sometimes like to butt in and this changes the percentages somewhat.

I don't want to pass but I have to respect partner and bid what we agree.
I did my share of "sick" biding
RHO open 1 i have x xxxx A xxx xxx A
I bid 1 all pas make 1 -3
made 4 trick absolot top all the field played 4 ....
Michel
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#20 User is online   Tramticket 

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Posted 2022-September-28, 02:33

View PostGilithin, on 2022-September-27, 17:19, said:

In a vacuum, you want to Pass with 35-40% of hands, bid 1 or higher with 35-40% of hands and open 1 with the rest.


Why? Is there some science behind this comment?

Much will depend upon your system philosophy. Opening lower gives more space for you to bid constructively. but lower openings also give more space for your opponents to interfere cheaply and relatively risk-free, at the one level. The higher the bid, the less bidding space you will have for your constructive bids. But higher bids are less likely to attract interference as overcalling at the two level and higher is more risky. There are trade-offs and the above percentages seem to be very simplistic.

Take a simple system, such as Acol:
- A weak no trump occurs more often than a strong no trump - a balanced 12-14 has a 9.7% frequency compared with 4.9% for a balanced 15-17.
- Major suit openings occur more often if you allow the suits to be four-cards or longer, when compared with five-card major systems. It isn't easy to quantify this because some Acol players will systematically open a minor with 4432 (outside the no trump range), whereas others (including me) will open the major.

But overall, Acol tends to be a system where the one-level bids are more pre-emptive - which has advantages and disadvantages.
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